Balance of Power (Sign Up/Rules/Commentary Thread)

[windjammer]

As you all know- I am a frank talker, so here we go....

Windjammer, pal- you are a good fellow, I like you, but your public criticisms of Lumine's decisions are total bullsh**t... You are his #2 and should not be undermining him publicly, first of all. Secondly- what else do we have to go by then what Lumine tells us is the reality? If we have to doubt his decisions,what point is there in continuing this game? I may be a genius businessman but in Monopoly if I get a few bad rolls, I am bankrupt. He runs this game his way- and the basic premise we accept to play it is that what he says goes, and I do not appreciate you casting doubt on that premise to ruin this game. I did not protest whenever I disagreed with his decisions even if they cast the USA in a bad light, and I would appreciate you not adding doubt to the game



Also.......as others have pointed out, my primary goal as the USA has been expanding our military might. I have strategically placed my forces across the world knowing this would be the goal........of course,this is "out of character', but I even sent the Wikipedia article of "War Plan Red" to Lumine at the start of the game to explain my overall strategy. War Plan Red was a pre-WWII war plan by the USA to defeat the British if we ended up opposing them in a conflict.....it is past the date in which this game is played, but it describes the strategy the USA would have taken. I have been planning for war with Britain since the start of this game....again, this is "out of character" but I believe this has already been guessed. My actions in the game have been taken accordingly, and I do not believe attacks on the USA's actions in the "real world" are relevant to what all of us have done in this alternate history

I like how the fact that I have just said I disagreed with the results means I should resign and that I'm undermining Lumine's game ).

Well, firstly, I'm Assistant GM, not a player during this war. And this is my duty to say if I disagree or not with the result. If I were a player during this war, it would have been obviously inappropriate. However, that's not the case. The fact you're saying I'm undermining Lumine's game isn't only excessive, but as well untrue. I don't understand the problem. Yyou know, mistakes can happen,so I was just curious to know why Lumine has done that. I don't think I have been disrespectful or anything else, I have just asked a question.

So if you just believe I will resign or anything else, you're totally wrong. I believe that my contribution was made to make the game better. Because, yep, mistakes can happen. Lumine can make mistakes. And this is my duty to ask informations from Lumine when he believes he hasn't made the good move.

I don't feel ashamed at all from my behaviour and I won't apologize. The fact that my former allies (Kal, yourself,cranberry) are all in this war doesn't mean I will have a bias towards you. Keep in mind that. I try to do all I can to have a neutral vision of the war.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

I did not say you should resign nor did I say you should have a bias- I said you undermined Lumine. Your disagreements with him should be expressed privately, that is what a "deputy" or an "assistant" does...you are correct that it is your duty to speak with Lumine if you speak he has made a mistake, but not publicly criticize his decisions

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Windjammer, I don't consider you "biased", I just disagree with some of the points you've made.

I must also concur with Clarence that this should have been handled outside of the thread. This game is already suffering from some organizational problems and there is no reason to deepen them.

[windjammer]

Well, fine, I will make that privately next time.

[free my dawg]

Once again, I'd like to ask why Windjammer was so vocal with a neutral party, but when he had benefited from Austria-Hungary not collapsing into dust (as it most likely would have had if they struggled for a year against two minor powers, had in all but name become a German vassal state, yet gained an entirely new ethnicity) and an impossible eighteen-month rout of Russia, he did not speak up then.

[windjammer]

Once again, I'd like to ask why Windjammer was so vocal with a neutral party, but when he had benefited from Austria-Hungary not collapsing into dust (as it most likely would have had if they struggled for a year against two minor powers, had in all but name become a German vassal state, yet gained an entirely new ethnicity) and an impossible eighteen-month rout of Russia, he did not speak up then.

Sorry, I have forgotten to answer.

Firstly, you know why AHU was collapsing? Because Lumine gave to me (the AHU player) penalities because of Oldiesfreak's inactivity, whereas I was clearly playing AHU. I of course was able to convince Lumine not to give me penalties because of Oldiesfreak anymore.

Secondly, maybe because I was able to make peace with Romania???

Thirdly, I got Ukraine. Why? Because I signed a peace with Snowstalker.

And last point, the fact that Ukraine didn't collapse wasn't a miracle, it's just because I was able to make the good moves in the good time.


I hope you're not insinuating I had a special treatment?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Guys...

Lets make one thing clear: the course of this game depends on moves, timing and some luck too. If we were trying to be 100% realistic, we would need to spend months on one simple phase. And this game is already remarkably realistic thanks to Lumine's dedication and knowledge.

So you made good moves as good times, that's fine. But the very same rule applies to other players.

If we were trying to depend on RL history in every aspect, then both Ottoman Empire and Austria wouldn't be able to do half of things we did, five years of reforms notwithstanding.

[windjammer]

Guys...

Lets make one thing clear: the course of this game depends on moves, timing and some luck too. If we were trying to be 100% realistic, we would need to spend months on one simple phase. And this game is already remarkably realistic thanks to Lumine's dedication and knowledge.

So you made good moves as good times, that's fine. But the very same rule applies to other players.

If we were trying to depend on RL history in every aspect, then both Ottoman Empire and Austria wouldn't be able to do half of things we did, five years of reforms notwithstanding.

Once again, there is a difference between recovering and becoming a major player.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Guys...

Lets make one thing clear: the course of this game depends on moves, timing and some luck too. If we were trying to be 100% realistic, we would need to spend months on one simple phase. And this game is already remarkably realistic thanks to Lumine's dedication and knowledge.

So you made good moves as good times, that's fine. But the very same rule applies to other players.

If we were trying to depend on RL history in every aspect, then both Ottoman Empire and Austria wouldn't be able to do half of things we did, five years of reforms notwithstanding.

Once again, there is a difference between recovering and becoming a major player.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that such a quick recovery of Austria-Hungary or Ottoman Empire are somewhat less plausible (if we were 100% realistic) than U.S. military and political buildup. You really seems to forget how industrialized and growing the United States were at this time. And again, given their ability to quickly form a large army and navy during the WWI, it's certainly not implausible there, especially with Clarence focusing on this for five years.

The point is, no game can be that much like RL. And it shouldn't be, otherwise it would be boring (seriously, who would like to play as Austria or Ottomans?)

[CLARENCE 2015!]

Define "major player"......

The only players in this game are the major powers.....it is not as if any player is building Portugal into a superpower in 5 years

[windjammer]

Guys...

Lets make one thing clear: the course of this game depends on moves, timing and some luck too. If we were trying to be 100% realistic, we would need to spend months on one simple phase. And this game is already remarkably realistic thanks to Lumine's dedication and knowledge.

So you made good moves as good times, that's fine. But the very same rule applies to other players.

If we were trying to depend on RL history in every aspect, then both Ottoman Empire and Austria wouldn't be able to do half of things we did, five years of reforms notwithstanding.

Once again, there is a difference between recovering and becoming a major player.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that such a quick recovery of Austria-Hungary or Ottoman Empire are somewhat less plausible (if we were 100% realistic) than U.S. military and political buildup. You really seems to forget how industrialized and growing the United States were at this time. And again, given their ability to quickly form a large army and navy during the WWI, it's certainly not implausible there, especially with Clarence focusing on this for five years.

The point is, no game can be that much like RL. And it shouldn't be, otherwise it would be boring (seriously, who would like to play as Austria or Ottomans?)

The  USA became more powerful and I agree with that. But there is a difference between becoming more powerful and becoming a major player. You really seem to forget how powerful european countries were during the beginning of the XX century. And once again, when you won a war, you don't fall, that's what happened to AHU.

Don't expect me not to try to make this game real just for the sake of AH, Ottoman players, sorry.
If AHU was going into war right now, you could have been sure this country would have collapsed.


-----------
Major players: this is like the  USA and the USSR during WW2. This is like the USA right now, not in 1905 where the major powers were: France, GB and Germany.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

Those are the major players at that point in real history.....this is not the real world. As my buddy Kalwejt said,there are decisions I made here that preceded real world decisions by 15 or so years, and therefore took effect much earlier

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

This universe is based roughly on the world as it was in 1901 (starting point), but time here is passing somewhat diffrently and the game, by definition, must be very competitive. Otherwise, there would be no point of playing.

Lumine did a fascinating job by managing this world and keeping it interesting, yet as plausible as it is possible within realm of any simulation.

[windjammer]

Those are the major players at that point in real history.....this is not the real world. As my buddy Kalwejt said,there are decisions I made here that preceded real world decisions by 15 or so years, and therefore took effect much earlier

I just believe that's not enough to believe the USA is a major power. You have made your country more powerful though.

This universe is based roughly on the world as it was in 1901 (starting point), but time here is passing somewhat diffrently and the game, by definition, must be very competitive. Otherwise, there would be no point of playing.

Lumine did a fascinating job by managing this world and keeping it interesting, yet as plausible as it is possible within realm of any simulation.

Tthat doesn't mean it allows the Ottoman Empire to become so powerful, especially after 2 wars.
And yep, Lumine did a great job. I just disagreed with him recently on some things.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

I would like to state that my intial post towards you- Windjammer- came across a bit strong.....it was more friendly sh**t talk then accusatory toward an enemy, even though I do believe you should have addressed this privately,perhaps I should have done the same to you

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Those are the major players at that point in real history.....this is not the real world. As my buddy Kalwejt said,there are decisions I made here that preceded real world decisions by 15 or so years, and therefore took effect much earlier

I just believe that's not enough to believe the USA is a major power. You have made your country more powerful though.

This universe is based roughly on the world as it was in 1901 (starting point), but time here is passing somewhat diffrently and the game, by definition, must be very competitive. Otherwise, there would be no point of playing.

Lumine did a fascinating job by managing this world and keeping it interesting, yet as plausible as it is possible within realm of any simulation.

Tthat doesn't mean it allows the Ottoman Empire to become so powerful, especially after 2 wars.

Funny that you had no issues that when we were both at war with Russia

[windjammer]

Those are the major players at that point in real history.....this is not the real world. As my buddy Kalwejt said,there are decisions I made here that preceded real world decisions by 15 or so years, and therefore took effect much earlier

I just believe that's not enough to believe the USA is a major power. You have made your country more powerful though.

This universe is based roughly on the world as it was in 1901 (starting point), but time here is passing somewhat diffrently and the game, by definition, must be very competitive. Otherwise, there would be no point of playing.

Lumine did a fascinating job by managing this world and keeping it interesting, yet as plausible as it is possible within realm of any simulation.

Tthat doesn't mean it allows the Ottoman Empire to become so powerful, especially after 2 wars.

Funny that you had no issues that when we were both at war with Russia

I have enough that the players always call me the war with Russia, and really. I'm tired.

I wasn't Assistant GM during this war.

[windjammer]

I would like to state that my intial post towards you- Windjammer- came across a bit strong.....it was more friendly sh**t talk then accusatory toward an enemy, even though I do believe you should have addressed this privately,perhaps I should have done the same to you

Not really.
I accept critiscism and I don't understand why all people want to do that in private.

But I know, it seems I'm the only player to believe that critiscism doesn't mean a willingness to undermine someone else and that critics are mostly constructive, and that the fact this is made publicy is a good point because you have the reactions to the other persons involved.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

Revealing private conversations is indeed crossing the line...........Windjammer,I am disappointed

[windjammer]

Well,
Just to say I'm sorry. I have made a big mistake and I assume all the consequences and I prefer to resign.
Sorry,
Windjammer

[free my dawg]

Once again, I'd like to ask why Windjammer was so vocal with a neutral party, but when he had benefited from Austria-Hungary not collapsing into dust (as it most likely would have had if they struggled for a year against two minor powers, had in all but name become a German vassal state, yet gained an entirely new ethnicity) and an impossible eighteen-month rout of Russia, he did not speak up then.

Sorry, I have forgotten to answer.

Firstly, you know why AHU was collapsing? Because Lumine gave to me (the AHU player) penalities because of Oldiesfreak's inactivity, whereas I was clearly playing AHU. I of course was able to convince Lumine not to give me penalties because of Oldiesfreak anymore.

Secondly, maybe because I was able to make peace with Romania???

Thirdly, I got Ukraine. Why? Because I signed a peace with Snowstalker.

And last point, the fact that Ukraine didn't collapse wasn't a miracle, it's just because I was able to make the good moves in the good time.


I hope you're not insinuating I had a special treatment?

With all due respect, I'm insinuating that you kept quiet about "ahistoricality" when you yourself directly benefited from it, but in a situation where it doesn't concern you, you piped up and decided to take control of Lumine's game, and now you've leaked private conversations to the world. That's just unacceptable.

[windjammer]

Once again, I'd like to ask why Windjammer was so vocal with a neutral party, but when he had benefited from Austria-Hungary not collapsing into dust (as it most likely would have had if they struggled for a year against two minor powers, had in all but name become a German vassal state, yet gained an entirely new ethnicity) and an impossible eighteen-month rout of Russia, he did not speak up then.

Sorry, I have forgotten to answer.

Firstly, you know why AHU was collapsing? Because Lumine gave to me (the AHU player) penalities because of Oldiesfreak's inactivity, whereas I was clearly playing AHU. I of course was able to convince Lumine not to give me penalties because of Oldiesfreak anymore.

Secondly, maybe because I was able to make peace with Romania???

Thirdly, I got Ukraine. Why? Because I signed a peace with Snowstalker.

And last point, the fact that Ukraine didn't collapse wasn't a miracle, it's just because I was able to make the good moves in the good time.


I hope you're not insinuating I had a special treatment?

With all due respect, I'm insinuating that you kept quiet about "ahistoricality" when you yourself directly benefited from it, but in a situation where it doesn't concern you, you piped up and decided to take control of Lumine's game, and now you've leaked private conversations to the world. That's just unacceptable.

Yep, and I totally agree.

I'm sorry.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Well,
Just to say I'm sorry. I have made a big mistake and I assume all the consequences and I prefer to resign.
Sorry,
Windjammer

Thank you, Windjammer.

Look, you're an active part of this game and I certainly don't wish to see you resign. I think we easily can overcome these last incidents.

As of the debate that's been going on, I propose we'll suspend this, to cool off, and give this "war" a chance (after all, it's just one phase).

[windjammer]

Well,
Just to say I'm sorry. I have made a big mistake and I assume all the consequences and I prefer to resign.
Sorry,
Windjammer

Thank you, Windjammer.

Look, you're an active part of this game and I certainly don't wish to see you resign. I think we easily can overcome these last incidents.

As of the debate that's been going on, I propose we'll suspend this, to cool off, and give this "war" a chance (after all, it's just one phase).

Sorry, but I prefer to stop. This game has made me more aggressive. And I don't plan to say something wrong again, I don't want to hurt someone anymore.

When something is wrong, it's better to stop completely rather than trying to appease a bit, and then making the same mistakes.

For AHU, even if I haven't posted the reforms, Lumine is personally aware of my reform. So I mean he calculate easily the results, and then make AHU no playable.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Well,
Just to say I'm sorry. I have made a big mistake and I assume all the consequences and I prefer to resign.
Sorry,
Windjammer

Thank you, Windjammer.

Look, you're an active part of this game and I certainly don't wish to see you resign. I think we easily can overcome these last incidents.

As of the debate that's been going on, I propose we'll suspend this, to cool off, and give this "war" a chance (after all, it's just one phase).

Sorry, but I prefer to stop. This game has made me more aggressive. And I don't plan to say something wrong again, I don't want to hurt someone anymore.

When something is wrong, it's better to stop completely rather than trying to appease a bit, and then making the same mistakes.

For AHU, even if I haven't posted the reforms, Lumine is personally aware of my reform. So I mean he calculate easily the results, and then make AHU no playable.

That's too bad.

Wasn't a person interested in playing as AHU?