SENATE BILL: South American/Asian Trade Reform Act (Law'd)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sponsor: Lumine

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The sponsor has 24 hours to begin advocating for this.

[Lumine]

Well, it's a rather simple bill (and a good way to start my foreign policy efforts). I am a strong supporter of increased trade, and I have been advocating increased attention to Latin America and Southeast Asia for a very long time. The purpose of this bill is to strengthen our ties with some of the key organizations in those continents:

OAS: As a Chilean (and having a poor opinion of the current General Secretary), I feel that OAS has failed to achieve it's potential thanks to our neglect of the organization or out abuse of it during the Cold War. OAS is severely underfunded, so I believe we should discuss a funding increase for it so we can avoid the problem that particular donors represent here. I am also concerned over the number of Latin American heads of state seeking to end Presidential term limits so they can go to reelection over and over again (the late Chavez, Morales, Correa, Fernandez, and so forth), so I wanted to manifest our disapproval on paper.

APEC: In my opinion, this is a very successful organization, and it has a pretty important role in trade affairs. However, it doesn't have as nearly as enough members as it should have, which is why I want to advocate for the entrance of the states mentioned before. All of those states have requested membership, but I did leave some of the countries out, like Pakistan (instability), Mongolia (obviously) and Sri Lanka. Guam has also tried to be a separate member (like Hong Kong-China), and I feel they deserve to have that right.

Pacific Alliance: One of the decisions of Sebastian Piñera that I really support, the Pacific Alliance has not only proved that it has capability and potential, it is comprised of countries actually interested in having a closer relationship with us, unlike some of the Mercosur members (which have obviously attacked this trade Alliance). I feel we should join it, but since we still have to deal with immigration issues and since I don't feel it's a good idea to allow free and open immigration from Mexico yet, I choose to reflect that on paper as well.

ASEAN: The most simple of all, having an observer status allows for greater cooperation, and it does serve to make a point to China.

There are quite a good number of points worthy of discussion (like the OAS funding), so I'm really interested in feedback here.

[TNF]

This smacks of imperialism.

[Lumine]

This smacks of imperialism.

Senator, as a man from Latin America I know very well the historical consequences of imperialism (in my very own country, for example),  and I believe I can recognize actual imperialism. Since when joining organizations to coordinate and trade with other countries is imperialism?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

If I may ask, why should we give up Guam?
And why the hate for limits on the terms
Of leaders duly chosen by their people
(Though I admit that Chavez wasn't that good
At being democratic in his state)?
Thirdly, I'd like to say it's "its", not "it's".

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

We can disapprove of an end to presidential term limits, but what is the role of OAS in this?  Can Atlasia really do anything about it throguh this organization?

Lumine, who are these donors you are concerned about and what threat do they pose?

[Lumine]

If I may ask, why should we give up Guam?
And why the hate for limits on the terms
Of leaders duly chosen by their people
(Though I admit that Chavez wasn't that good
At being democratic in his state)?
Thirdly, I'd like to say it's "its", not "it's".

I feel we should give Guam an opportunity to gain a small degree of independence, even if it is trade organization. While I don't question that in several cases the leaders that strike down term limits end up winning the elections in a relatively fair way, Latin America has a history of leaders who took advantage of this to build authoritarian regimes or rig the elections. I felt it provides a compelling use of OAS to prove it can get things done. My apologies for the typos, I always make that mistake...

We can disapprove of an end to presidential term limits, but what is the role of OAS in this?  Can Atlasia really do anything about it through this organization?

Lumine, who are these donors you are concerned about and what threat do they pose?

As I said to Alfred, I feel that trying to end this practice by coordinating with the governments of the regions via OAS is a good way of proving that the organization works. Otherwise we might get the open road of talking with every single government by separate, and that's not going to happen in Atlasia. It also provides the SoEA with an interesting storyline to follow (or at least that's my opinion).

I do have to apologize for my earlier remark on the donors. In my original remark I meant that since we are not funding OAS in the same way we are funding it in OTL, it must be facing even worse problems. I read in my reseach that some of the proposed solutions was to accept private donations (I lost that source and I confused my argument about it), which in my opinion would lead to negative results.

Now, the OTL United States provides about 60% of the funding to OAS, and even with that the organization has had the same budget for about 20 years. In the past years they had to cut funding for their human rights efforts, and they had to fire a third of the staff, which meant that they couldn't act as observers to some elections. I feel OAS can actually get things done, but it needs proper funding and it needs greater involvement from us in order to succeed.

I wished to discuss this point because there are many solutions, and I am not necessarily asking for a blank check as well. We could always go with a provision in which we ask OAS to change its economic fees to the rest of the members pay more.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

If I may ask, why should we give up Guam?
And why the hate for limits on the terms
Of leaders duly chosen by their people
(Though I admit that Chavez wasn't that good
At being democratic in his state)?
Thirdly, I'd like to say it's "its", not "it's".

I feel we should give Guam an opportunity to gain a small degree of independence, even if it is trade organization. While I don't question that in several cases the leaders that strike down term limits end up winning the elections in a relatively fair way, Latin America has a history of leaders who took advantage of this to build authoritarian regimes or rig the elections. I felt it provides a compelling use of OAS to prove it can get things done. My apologies for the typos, I always make that mistake...

What do Guamanians think? And can you say
Why limits on a presidential term
Are bad per se (the Latin means I'm cool)?
The OAS should not be doing things
For their own sake, but only if they're right.
And "it's" and "its" are easily confused
(You stated you're Chilean, so that might
Screw things a bit up, English-language-wise).

[TNF]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Lumine]

If I may ask, why should we give up Guam?
And why the hate for limits on the terms
Of leaders duly chosen by their people
(Though I admit that Chavez wasn't that good
At being democratic in his state)?
Thirdly, I'd like to say it's "its", not "it's".

I feel we should give Guam an opportunity to gain a small degree of independence, even if it is trade organization. While I don't question that in several cases the leaders that strike down term limits end up winning the elections in a relatively fair way, Latin America has a history of leaders who took advantage of this to build authoritarian regimes or rig the elections. I felt it provides a compelling use of OAS to prove it can get things done. My apologies for the typos, I always make that mistake...

What do Guamanians think? And can you say
Why limits on a presidential term
Are bad per se (the Latin means I'm cool)?
The OAS should not be doing things
For their own sake, but only if they're right.
And "it's" and "its" are easily confused
(You stated you're Chilean, so that might
Screw things a bit up, English-language-wise).

Guam has applied for membership since at least 2000 (year in which we faced a small incident in which some of diplomats laughed at them beacuse of their request), and more than once we have seen manifestants from there in APEC meetings. I feel it would be fair to allow them a seat in APEC. While I would normally agree with the idea that OAS should only intervene in particular cases, is precisely that attitude that is undermining the organization. Since Insulza took over as General Secretary and a non-intervention focus was considered, OAS has failed to be effective in the Honduras crisis, in the impeachment of President Lugo in Paraguay, in the failed coup in Ecuador and specially in Venezuela, where they have refused to even consider some of the arguments of the opposition.

[Lumine]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I can understand the opposition to OAS, but why leave out the Pacific Alliance?

Amendment hostile, BTW.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sponsor Feedback: Hostile
Status: A vote is now open on this amendment, Senators please vote, Aye, Nay or Abstain.

[Goldwater]

NAY

[Lumine]

Nay.

[TNF]

Aye

I am extremely uncomfortable with the idea that Atlasia would be encouraging nations to oppose democratization (ending term limits) in the interest of international finance capital.

[DC Al Fine]

Nay

[Talleyrand]

AYE

[President Tyrion]

Nay

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Nay

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Aye.

[bore]

Aye

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Nay

May I please ask why you voted this way?

[President Tyrion]

Nay

May I please ask why you voted this way?

It's a reasonable question, because I'm obviously not voting with the left here.

I do believe Presidential term limits are an important part of a democratic society; however, I do appreciate the argument that mandating term limits is entirely UN-democratic. It's a rock and a hard place, truly. I think the downside of mandating policy is outweighed by the upside of preventing totalitarian rule.

I think the Pacific Alliance is something I support. Visa-free travel between Latin American states is a positive. I think Lumine's original text handles the need for immigration reform with respect to joining the Pacific Alliance pretty well.

Common diplomatic representation in the Pacific Alliance is a bit iffy, and I think I'll insert something to the effect of having that removed.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Nay

May I please ask why you voted this way?

It's a reasonable question, because I'm obviously not voting with the left here.

I do believe Presidential term limits are an important part of a democratic society; however, I do appreciate the argument that mandating term limits is entirely UN-democratic. It's a rock and a hard place, truly. I think the downside of mandating policy is outweighed by the upside of preventing totalitarian rule.

I think the Pacific Alliance is something I support. Visa-free travel between Latin American states is a positive. I think Lumine's original text handles the need for immigration reform with respect to joining the Pacific Alliance pretty well.

Common diplomatic representation in the Pacific Alliance is a bit iffy, and I think I'll insert something to the effect of having that removed.

Your explanation's much appreciated.