SENATE BILL: South American/Asian Trade Reform Act (Law'd)

[Lumine]

Nay

May I please ask why you voted this way?

It's a reasonable question, because I'm obviously not voting with the left here.

I do believe Presidential term limits are an important part of a democratic society; however, I do appreciate the argument that mandating term limits is entirely UN-democratic. It's a rock and a hard place, truly. I think the downside of mandating policy is outweighed by the upside of preventing totalitarian rule.

I think the Pacific Alliance is something I support. Visa-free travel between Latin American states is a positive. I think Lumine's original text handles the need for immigration reform with respect to joining the Pacific Alliance pretty well.

Common diplomatic representation in the Pacific Alliance is a bit iffy, and I think I'll insert something to the effect of having that removed.

I thank Senator Tyrion for keeping an open mind about this bill, and I share some of his concerns in regards to the Pacific Alliance as well, so an amendment that improves the language in regards of immigration and removes common representation is more than welcome.

Trying to keep the identity of a region in mind when dealing with said region always has the dilemma of falling into cliches, but I can assure you that, at least in this continent, we have some rather serious issues with term limits. I believe such a limit is for the best, and it is my goal to achieve this through a consensus sponsored by the organisms mentioned before, not by, as TNF says, by being imperalist and supposedly serving finance interests.

[TNF]

What business does the Republic have in encouraging states in Latin America to not repeal term limits? Term limits are anti-democratic.

[Lumine]

What business does the Republic have in encouraging states in Latin America to not repeal term limits? Term limits are anti-democratic.

We certainly don't have an obligation, but again, I believe it's a cause worth pursuing. The argument of term limits as anti-democratic can be made in a very effective way for a strong democracy with branches of power than can actually check executive power, like in Atlasia. But as we have repeatedly seen in countries like Bolivia, Nicaragua, Venezuela and Ecuador, term limits are a mere excuse for what the analysts call "new caudillos" to seize power and gradually undermine democracy. Tyrion is right, and term limits in this specific place in the world help to prevent authoritarianism.

I will get slightly off-topic here, but there's a point I wanted to address in regards to my foreign policy bills. During the month in which I have served as a Senator (and perhaps during my entire career in Atlasia) I've heard the argument of many world affairs being "none of our business". A couple of years ago I would have definitely agreed with such an argument, but the more I learn the more convinced I am that Atlasia can be a positive influence abroad, and even more, that it has to step in and be a positive influence, for we have the tools to do so (unlike powers like China and Russia, whose most recent interventions have led to what we see right now in Tibet and Ukraine). There are calls for Atlasia to only mind its domestic issues, but we don't live in a vacuum, and pretending to live in a vacuum will not solve anything. We can repair some of the damage we caused to Latin America in the past century, but we can't do it by being almost isolationist.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Term limits here are fine for the President, even though I know most of you would love to see me receive a life term, but I think dictating that policy to other countries may be a bit much of us, as great and all knowing as we are.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The wording of this right now seems to be suggesting the Senate is going to have free movement of people from these countries as part of some immigration reform.  While I'm not necessarily opposed to that at some point, I'm not sure it's a realistic assumption.  What situation will we be in regarding the Pacific Alliance if that policy never comes together?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I am split, I have no problem with section 2, but deep concerns regarding section 4 and the promises it commits us to in terms of immigration. However with no vice President, there is no one to break a tie.

So I vote nay.

Aye (4): Alfred F. Jones, bore, Talleyrand and TNF
Nay (6): DC al Fine, Goldwater, Lumine, NC Yankee, shua and TyriontheImperialist
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (0):

The amenment has been rejected. 

[President Tyrion]

Well, let's rework Section 4. I'm not 100% in love with it, and I'm getting the sense that it's a pretty common sentiment.

[Lumine]

The wording of this right now seems to be suggesting the Senate is going to have free movement of people from these countries as part of some immigration reform.  While I'm not necessarily opposed to that at some point, I'm not sure it's a realistic assumption.  What situation will we be in regarding the Pacific Alliance if that policy never comes together?

So far the immigration moves in the Pacific Alliance are focused on cooperation, but they no specific measures as of now regarding immigration. Indeed, free movement of people within these countries and our is not realistic as of now (could be in a few years), which is why I agree with the need for reworking Section 4.

So far the ideas seem to be to put restrictions on free immigration (but perhaps allowing visa-free travel) and dropping common diplomatic representation. Do you wish to offer an amendment for Section 4, Tyrion?

[President Tyrion]

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Lumine, you like or you no like Tyrions' amendment?

[Lumine]

Amendment friendly, it solves most if not all of my concerns (and I hope the rest of the Senate shares that view) on the Pacific Alliance issue.

[Cincinnatus]

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Wonderfull.

[Cincinnatus]

The amendment has been adopted.

[President Tyrion]

Honestly, our membership in the Pacific Alliance bloc might be rejected if we're steadfast on those points, but there's really no reason to waver in this specific case.

I'm ready for a final vote.

[Lumine]

Honestly, our membership in the Pacific Alliance bloc might be rejected if we're steadfast on those points, but there's really no reason to waver in this specific case.

I'm ready for a final vote.

I believe there's one last issue I'd like to discuss with the Senate before a final vote, that being the specific funding we will provide to OAS. Current budget (2014) is 162.5 million dollars, which is not enough, and we are providing 65.7 million. Would the Senate agree to an increase of 30-40 million?

[Cincinnatus]

Where are we on this Senators? 

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Lumine are you down with the Final vote, or do you want to address another issue?

[Lumine]

Lumine are you down with the Final vote, or do you want to address another issue?

I'd like to address the issue of OAS funding before going to a final vote, I wanted to see if there's opposition or support to increase the funding as I proposed in my earlier post.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What is the funding used for?

[President Tyrion]

Is it absolutely necessary that we increase funding?

[Lumine]

What is the funding used for?

Mostly to the regular fund, which supports the efforts of the General Secretariat, including acting as an observer to elections, sponsoring human rights, supporting environmental friendly projects, and diplomatic efforts in case of coups or the ousting of democratic Presidents and governments (and we've had several of those in the past years, but nobody seems to tonice). The rest goes to specifc funds that sponsor development and social projects across the continent to raise standars of living and increase cooperation between governments.

Is it absolutely necessary that we increase funding?

I strongly believe so, Tyrion. Current funding for OAS is not enough, it hampers their ability to act in many levels, and it is one of the main causes of OAS not looking efficient enough.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So we expecting an amendment to that effect soon?

[Lumine]

I'll offer the amendment myself:

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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