IDS1: The Take the Power Back Act of 2014 [Voting on Override]
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  IDS1: The Take the Power Back Act of 2014 [Voting on Override]
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Author Topic: IDS1: The Take the Power Back Act of 2014 [Voting on Override]  (Read 761 times)
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« on: April 07, 2014, 05:20:38 PM »
« edited: April 20, 2014, 09:20:47 PM by Emperor Scott »

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Sponsor: Jbrase
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2014, 05:21:03 PM »

You have 24 hours to advocate for this, Jbrase.
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CatoMinor
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2014, 09:38:20 PM »

Anyone have any questions over this?
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Dereich
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2014, 10:34:36 PM »

Wait, so this would have the Emperor nullify the FEDERAL law, not the Imperial one?
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2014, 10:39:21 PM »

Yeah, I'm pretty sure only the Supreme Court can issue stays...
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2014, 11:11:13 PM »

Yeah, I'm pretty sure only the Supreme Court can issue stays...

     I am inclined to agree. Unless the Supreme Court specifically injoins enforcement, nullifying a federal law is dicey legal ground, and potentially grounds for the Emperor to be prosecuted for treason.
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CatoMinor
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2014, 12:01:50 AM »

It states that it would only be until the SC made their decision. Its not like we would simply be us picking and choosing what law applies to us since that would be pretty treasonous. We could simply ask for a stay of the law, but why should we always throw ourselves at the mercy of the very level of gov't we would be suing?

I am not trying to put the region on equal level to the feds, just simply pushing for greater ability to stand up for ourselves as a region. Anyone who claims to support democracy should see that the more autonomy the regions and even the cities and towns have, the closer the power govern is to the people themselves.

Is this likely to be challenged in court at some point? Very likely (although we have passed laws before that could be read as straight up treason, but the feds, to my knowledge, never even noticed.) But if it has to be challenged in court let it be, at least we can say we went down advancing the cause of liberty and fighting for returning power closer to the people.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 03:59:48 PM »

     I understand the importance of such a gesture, I just don't think it would be good to potentially condemn a sympathetic Atlasian. If I may suggest an alteration, perhaps involving more people in the process would be potentially useful. I do not suppose that it would be so easy to prosecute people for treason if there were, say, five culpable parties rather than just one. At that point, there are serious concerns about axing a significant portion of the active electorate.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 04:36:49 PM »

I think that for a region to have the power to issue stays or nullify laws, even if temporarily, would be unconstitutional because it demonstrates a disregard for federal law.  The federal Constitution simply doesn't afford the right to dictate those laws to the regions for any duration or reason.  If there is a law on the books that this region opposes or sees as a hindrance to our freedoms, we can only act on our right to sue.  Independent of whether or not it's right, it is the law, and I'm hesitant to sign a bill knowing that it's unconstitutional.  This is a kind of change I would prefer we advocate for on the federal level, as I'm definitely not opposed to the issuing of stays on principle.
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Donerail
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2014, 09:17:26 PM »

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Amendment?
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CatoMinor
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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2014, 12:02:45 AM »

Not friendly. Sorry Sjoyce.

If you want to amend it to where we all as a region take responsibility instead of just the Emperor I am fine, but the point is to push for greater autonomy on our part than to simply reaffirm that if we want something we must crawl before the feds to get it. I wrote this with the understanding that it might very well be challenged in court (should you my colleagues permit it to pass), but I also wrote this with the belief that just because the feds are always going to be able to pull rank and say their law is superior, it does not mean that they are infallible. 
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2014, 05:28:11 PM »

For the record, I'm willing to sign the bill if SJoyce's amendment is adopted.  Otherwise, I cannot get behind the bill in its current form.  I am not willing to open that can of worms.

(That is, unless PiT wants more work on his plate. Tongue)
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Simfan34
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2014, 05:43:17 PM »

Mr. Governor, I am sure you know as well as I that this bill is unconstitutional.
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Dereich
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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2014, 06:37:26 PM »
« Edited: April 14, 2014, 06:41:37 PM by Speaker Dereich »

I'm sorry, I had something I wanted to say about the amendment but I lost it. I hereby call a vote on Sjoyce's amendment.  I intend to begin final voting pretty soon after this amendment is done if not much more is said, so if you have more you want to add to the discussion don't hesitate to do so now. Legislators have 48 hours to vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

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Donerail
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2014, 07:19:40 PM »

Aye.

I very much doubt that the legislation in its original form will stand up to the constitutionality test. I'd rather get something than nothing.
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Dereich
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« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2014, 11:17:36 PM »

I'm not sure how to vote on this amendment; I agree that it has no legal legs to stand on if it passes and that the amended version would be a net positive, but I don't really think that was the point. Since I'm pretty sure Jbrase intended this to be a completely illegal overreach that made more of a statement than a positive to our legal code, I don't know if I can yank that right out from under him by subverting this bill.

I'll abstain for now.
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CatoMinor
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« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2014, 11:34:39 AM »

Nay

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And Dereich is right in that this is intended more to be a statement that anything else. If we as a nation are going to make the claim that we are a democracy, then it should stand to reason that the people would have the right to self rule. And this would push us closer to that ideal of the power being moved closer to the people.
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Oak Hills
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« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2014, 02:53:50 PM »

Aye.
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Dereich
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« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2014, 12:19:07 AM »

Well then, with Jbrase's confirmation I see no reason to change my vote. Let's vote on his principle.

With a vote of 2-2 with one abstaining this amendment is defeated.
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Dereich
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« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2014, 11:00:44 PM »

Seeing no further debate, I hereby bring this to a final vote. Legislators have 48 hours to vote aye, nay or to abstain.

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CatoMinor
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« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2014, 11:12:43 PM »

Aye
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Oak Hills
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« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2014, 08:17:54 PM »

Nay.
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Dereich
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« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2014, 02:45:08 PM »

Abstain
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Dereich
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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2014, 03:19:35 AM »

With 2 votes in favor with one against, one abstaining and one not voting this bill passes the Imperial Legislature and moves to the Emperor for veto or signature.
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Dereich
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« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2014, 09:17:58 PM »

The Emperor having vetoed this legislation, now we must decide whether to override the Emperor's veto or not. Normally I'd ask the sponsor whether or not they wanted to do this before trying for an override, but Jbrase just declared a leave of absence. I think its probably a good idea to go ahead with this anyway, this being the case.

Legislators have 48 hours to vote. A majority of 3/4ths of the legislature, either 4 ayes if 5 vote, 3 ayes if 4 vote, or approval from all those who vote if there are under 4 voters is required for an override. Please vote either aye, nay or abstain.
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