Are you a strict grammarian?
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  Are you a strict grammarian?
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Question: Are you a strict grammarian?
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Author Topic: Are you a strict grammarian?  (Read 1271 times)
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BRTD
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« on: April 08, 2014, 04:30:28 PM »
« edited: April 08, 2014, 04:41:05 PM by a combination of tumblr leftism and moshing »

Generally yes. As most here know I never stand for misuse of "literally" and I get really bugged my you're/your and their/there/they're switching as well. "I could care less" is something else I never tolerate.

However there is one grammar "rule" that I find ridiculous and never respect or recognize, and that's that there is anything wrong with split infinitives. I honestly doubt anyone today besides middle school English teachers have a problem with that.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2014, 04:41:52 PM »

I'm in French, not at all in English.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2014, 04:42:44 PM »

The point of grammar is to allow ideas to be expressed as succinctly as possible. To that end, proper grammar is important. However, as a reasonable person, I won't stand for prescriptivist nonsense. Language is what its speakers say it is.

However there is one grammar "rule" that I find ridiculous and never respect or recognize, and that's that there is anything wrong with split infinitives. I honestly doubt anyone today besides middle school English teachers have a problem with that.

That's because it's not a real rule.
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BRTD
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2014, 05:16:46 PM »

No, and nearly everyone who claims that he or she is a "strict grammarian" makes just as many errors as the rest of us.

I've absorbed the rule against split infinitives enough that they sound odd to me, but there's no reason to follow it in most situations. The same applies to ending a sentence with a preposition. Not many people care about trying to make English work like Latin any more.

Errors are one thing, but just ignoring logic in some cases is a whole other thing. And when it actually degrades language and makes it more difficult to use (such as misuse of "literally") then it's a problem.

The stuff you mention in the second paragraph is just dumb though.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2014, 05:17:12 PM »
« Edited: April 08, 2014, 05:18:53 PM by IDS Attorney General PiT »

     I suppose that I could be described as such. It is partially because grammatical errors drive me up a wall. It is also partially because I do not care for people who do not bother to articulate themselves properly.

     To clarify, I was never actually instructed on English grammar. Everything I know about it in a formal sense I only know as a result of comparison to French/German grammar.
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PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2014, 05:22:47 PM »

I am not a grammersturmfuhrer.
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Sol
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2014, 05:33:57 PM »

No, and nearly everyone who claims that he or she is a "strict grammarian" makes just as many errors as the rest of us.

I've absorbed the rule against split infinitives enough that they sound odd to me, but there's no reason to follow it in most situations. The same applies to ending a sentence with a preposition. Not many people care about trying to make English work like Latin any more.

Errors are one thing, but just ignoring logic in some cases is a whole other thing. And when it actually degrades language and makes it more difficult to use (such as misuse of "literally") then it's a problem.

From Etymonline:

very (adj.)
late 13c., verray "true, real, genuine," later "actual, sheer" (late 14c.), from Anglo-French verrai, Old French verai "true, truthful, sincere; right, just, legal," from Vulgar Latin *veracus, from Latin verax (genitive veracis) "truthful," from verus "true" (source also of Italian vero), from PIE root *were-o- "true, trustworthy" (cognates: Old English wær "a compact," Old Dutch, Old High German war, Dutch waar, German wahr "true;" Welsh gwyr, Old Irish fir "true;" Old Church Slavonic vera "faith," Russian viera "faith, belief"). Meaning "greatly, extremely" is first recorded mid-15c. Used as a pure intensive since Middle English.

Emphasis mine.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2014, 05:40:58 PM »

I of course follow the rules of English grammar in line with my idiolect, as I'm a native speaker.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2014, 05:51:17 PM »

No, especially not on the internet.
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RosettaStoned
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2014, 08:21:20 PM »

 Oh hell yeah, I'm a total Grammar Nazi. Tongue
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Torie
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2014, 08:30:29 PM »

I try to be, but sometimes F up myself. I find that I "clean up" my posts via the "modify" button an uncomfortably high percentage of the time. Sad
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ZuWo
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« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2014, 01:20:28 AM »

The more interested in historical linguistics I have become the more I have distanced myself from being a strict grammarian. After all, many of today's mistakes will be part of tomorrow's set of norms. Even if we wanted there is hardly anything we could do to stop ongoing language change.
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dead0man
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« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2014, 01:34:14 AM »

God no.  I try to:
A.make my posts readable and
2.try not to embarrass myself too much


I normally spellcheck everypost and preview/reread it at least once (if not 5 times).  To do any less would seem to me to be counterproductive.  If you're going to bother posting, why not make sure it's as readable and coherent as you reasonably can?  If I'm reading a post and the person obviously didn't care all that much what it ended up looking like, why should I care about what they are trying to say?


...but I don't understand being a douche about minor spelling and grammar errors, especially if it doesn't really screw up the flow and it's obvious what the person meant.  That's actually much more annoying.  A smart person claiming they don't know what a poster (and it happens in real life too) meant when it's OBVIOUS what they were trying to say to everybody else.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2014, 03:42:45 AM »

I write for a living. My answer to this question is "no." Language is an ever-changing art, not some dumb set of boring unchangable rules.
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politicallefty
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2014, 06:32:07 AM »

To a certain extent, yes. And I completely agree with this:


It's definitely my biggest pet peeve when it comes to grammar. It's like nails on a chalkboard to my ears. It's probably the only time I'd ever correct someone's grammar.

I'm also very much with you on the your/you're and there/their/they're errors, though it's not something I'd go out of my way to correct.
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2014, 10:10:12 AM »

Yes, yes I am- to the point of frequently editing my posts after the fact to fix grammar and spelling.  Philosophically I'd like to agree with the descriptivists... but there are some things that I just cannot see without involuntarily shuddering.  The worst, of course, is when people add apostrophe's to word's to pluralize them.

<twitch>

<twitchtwitch>

That being said, I have a dark confession to make: I use two spaces after a period.  I know it's wrong, but I just can't help myself.
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2014, 10:14:37 AM »

God no.  I try to:
A.make my posts readable and
2.try not to embarrass myself too much


I normally spellcheck everypost and preview/reread it at least once (if not 5 times).  To do any less would seem to me to be counterproductive.  If you're going to bother posting, why not make sure it's as readable and coherent as you reasonably can?  If I'm reading a post and the person obviously didn't care all that much what it ended up looking like, why should I care about what they are trying to say?


...but I don't understand being a douche about minor spelling and grammar errors, especially if it doesn't really screw up the flow and it's obvious what the person meant.  That's actually much more annoying.  A smart person claiming they don't know what a poster (and it happens in real life too) meant when it's OBVIOUS what they were trying to say to everybody else.

And yet I recall you throwing a fit about opebo's adjectives as nouns thing...
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Badger
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2014, 11:32:06 AM »

Fuc#in' A, yes.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2014, 12:00:42 PM »

That being said, I have a dark confession to make: I use two spaces after a period.  I know it's wrong, but I just can't help myself.
Don't feel guilty.  Using two spaces between sentences is fine, if perhaps a bit antique.  Yet, I like the look, and it does serve to distinguish between a period used to end an abbr. and one used to end a sentence.  Long live dual spacing!  (As well o t h e r forms of traditional spacing that have declined.)
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2014, 02:12:13 PM »

BRTD is literally the worst. I could care less what he thinks.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2014, 04:57:26 PM »

BRTD is literally the worst. I could care less what he thinks.

So you do care!

(BTW, as irksome as it to me when people use "could care less" when they mean they don't care at all about something, even worse is when people ironically use the phrase to irk people like me. Tongue  But irregardless, I know my language use likely sets off some people's peeves as well.)
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Torie
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« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2014, 05:14:48 PM »
« Edited: April 12, 2014, 05:49:29 PM by Torie »

BRTD is literally the worst. I could care less what he thinks.

So you do care!

(BTW, as irksome as it to me when people use "could care less" when they mean they don't care at all about something, even worse is when people ironically use the phrase to irk people like me. Tongue  But irregardless, I know my language use likely sets off some people's peeves as well.)

Yes, your use of that "word" is certainly irritating. Tongue  And there is nothing wrong with "couldn't care less" by the way. Cheers. Smiley
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angus
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« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2014, 07:02:00 PM »

...split infinitives.

...middle school English teachers have a problem with that.

Well, spanish teachers or italian teachers or french teachers, etc. certainly would.  In those languages it is obviously impossible to do so.

In English, I don't have a problem when people want to purposely split an infinitive.

(see what I did there?  yeah?  it felt good.  try it sometime.)
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Cranberry
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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2014, 02:48:07 AM »

Well, I think I'm kind of a grammar nazi in German, but I would never dare to do so in English (most likely I would have an error in the sentence with which I correct someone)
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2014, 02:50:35 AM »

No, because as mentioned earlier, most tend to make as many mistakes as anyone else. However, I am a pedant over certain pet-peeves.
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