Do you consider Texas part of the South?

[BaldEagle1991]

Coming from a Houstonian, I'd say yes. But I still have yet understanding people who consider TX part of the West when it has little cultural connections to places like Colorado or Nevada.

[TDAS04]

Yes.  Oklahoma too.

Before the 1950s, Texas often voted the most Democratic of any state outside of the Deep South (LA, MS, AL, GA, & SC).

Also, on maps that show top religious denomination by county, even West Texas contains several Baptist counties.

[H. Ross Peron]

If it talks like the South, eats like the South, prays like the South, votes like the South, and thinks like the South...

[DemPGH]

Yes. It would be South or one of the Plains states, and I would vote South. All of eastern Texas is definitely traditional South, although I'd say northern Texas is definitely very plains-y with typical prairie culture and terrain.

[CatoMinor]

Having lived here nearly a decade, and having driven all across the south numerous times, I can say Texas is southern, but its own unique version.

[Indy Texas]

My very rough estimation from 25 years of living here is below. The dark red portion is what I would say is "definitely Southern" while the pink areas are merely "kinda Southern." The gray areas are definitely not Southern.

[bedstuy]

To me, the parts of Texas where most people have a Southern accent are a part of the South.  So, Beaumont is in the South, but El Paso is clearly not in the South. 

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Yea... As the epitome of everything dreadful about America I'll throw it in.

[muon2]

My very rough estimation from 25 years of living here is below. The dark red portion is what I would say is "definitely Southern" while the pink areas are merely "kinda Southern." The gray areas are definitely not Southern.

I think this is pretty accurate, and if this is used as a baseline then less than half of the population of TX is southern. The problem is that the rest isn't all one culture either. North TX along with all but eastern OK are in the southern plains and have more in common with KC than Atlanta. The Rio Grande Valley including San Antonio are a Mexican influenced culture that neither southern nor plains, but has more in common with NM and AZ (and parts of CA).

I find quite a bit of accuracy in the commercial that says "Texas, it's like a whole other country." And FTR I spent some of my childhood in Dallas as well as some time there during the Supercollider era. It's not in the South.

[politicallefty]

I'd say it's primarily a Southern state, with some Southwestern and Plains influence. Politically, Texas whites seem to vote much like Deep South states. It voted identically to South Carolina in 2008, with only the four states between them having a more Republican white vote. Basically, I think Texas is a Southern state with a huge Hispanic population.

[Badger]

Eastern TX most definitely. The rest of the State, not so much.

[muon2]

I'd say it's primarily a Southern state, with some Southwestern and Plains influence. Politically, Texas whites seem to vote much like Deep South states. It voted identically to South Carolina in 2008, with only the four states between them having a more Republican white vote. Basically, I think Texas is a Southern state with a huge Hispanic population.

In 2012 the white vote in TX was as close to SC as it was to AZ, KS, and NE (DKE). The Deep South (LA, MS, AL, GA, SC) average Obama white vote was 13.6%. The central and southern Great Plains (OK, KS, NE) was OWV of 25.1%. The Southwest (AZ, NM) was OWV of 36.8%. The average of those three are 25.1% and TX was 23.4%. That certainly suggests a model where TX is only about 1/3 consistent with the South.

[7,052,770]

Just Eastern Texas.

[DemPGH]

Yeah, the only other option would be to call it a Plains state, I think.

What's interesting and probably coincidental is that the people I have met from eastern Texas will specify in telling you, "eastern Texas" is where they are from. They didn't remind me of anyone from Georgia or Alabama - they were just woodsy, if you will. No doubt they are politically aligned with the South, but not really so much culturally.

[Wake Me Up When The Hard Border Ends]

I would say Eastern Texas is definitely Southern, and generally the state as a whole, although:

• Texas very much stands out as an individual state.
• As others have mentioned, Texas is the intersection of the South, Plains and Southwest.

[PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald]

Partially.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Partially.

[politicallefty]

In 2012 the white vote in TX was as close to SC as it was to AZ, KS, and NE (DKE). The Deep South (LA, MS, AL, GA, SC) average Obama white vote was 13.6%. The central and southern Great Plains (OK, KS, NE) was OWV of 25.1%. The Southwest (AZ, NM) was OWV of 36.8%. The average of those three are 25.1% and TX was 23.4%. That certainly suggests a model where TX is only about 1/3 consistent with the South.

I don't know that I entirely trust that DKE data. (For example, that shows Obama's share of Oklahoma whites being cut roughly in half from 2008 to 2012, which doesn't add up to me.) I was only looking at the 2008 exit polls (since they exit polled all 50 states that year). That showed both Texas and South Carolina whites giving Obama 26%. The nearest states to those were Georgia at 23% and Oklahoma at 29%. I suppose it's not really fair to describe the Deep South white vote as a voting bloc. Whites in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama are really in a realm of their own, separate from all other states. However, it's still the case that Texas whites did vote very similar compared to South Carolina and Georgia whites in 2008.

[muon2]

In 2012 the white vote in TX was as close to SC as it was to AZ, KS, and NE (DKE). The Deep South (LA, MS, AL, GA, SC) average Obama white vote was 13.6%. The central and southern Great Plains (OK, KS, NE) was OWV of 25.1%. The Southwest (AZ, NM) was OWV of 36.8%. The average of those three are 25.1% and TX was 23.4%. That certainly suggests a model where TX is only about 1/3 consistent with the South.

I don't know that I entirely trust that DKE data. (For example, that shows Obama's share of Oklahoma whites being cut roughly in half from 2008 to 2012, which doesn't add up to me.) I was only looking at the 2008 exit polls (since they exit polled all 50 states that year). That showed both Texas and South Carolina whites giving Obama 26%. The nearest states to those were Georgia at 23% and Oklahoma at 29%. I suppose it's not really fair to describe the Deep South white vote as a voting bloc. Whites in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama are really in a realm of their own, separate from all other states. However, it's still the case that Texas whites did vote very similar compared to South Carolina and Georgia whites in 2008.

What you are doing is trying to find a single state fit based solely on voting behavior. Many posters here and most geographers recognize that TX is split between different regions. My point is that you can just as easily get the TX value by averaging voting patterns from different adjacent regions.

[Torie]

In 2012 the white vote in TX was as close to SC as it was to AZ, KS, and NE (DKE). The Deep South (LA, MS, AL, GA, SC) average Obama white vote was 13.6%. The central and southern Great Plains (OK, KS, NE) was OWV of 25.1%. The Southwest (AZ, NM) was OWV of 36.8%. The average of those three are 25.1% and TX was 23.4%. That certainly suggests a model where TX is only about 1/3 consistent with the South.

I don't know that I entirely trust that DKE data. (For example, that shows Obama's share of Oklahoma whites being cut roughly in half from 2008 to 2012, which doesn't add up to me.) I was only looking at the 2008 exit polls (since they exit polled all 50 states that year). That showed both Texas and South Carolina whites giving Obama 26%. The nearest states to those were Georgia at 23% and Oklahoma at 29%. I suppose it's not really fair to describe the Deep South white vote as a voting bloc. Whites in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama are really in a realm of their own, separate from all other states. However, it's still the case that Texas whites did vote very similar compared to South Carolina and Georgia whites in 2008.

What you are doing is trying to find a single state fit based solely on voting behavior. Many posters here and most geographers recognize that TX is split between different regions. My point is that you can just as easily get the TX value by averaging voting patterns from different adjacent regions.

Yes, Texas has three different cultural strains, but if one had to pick a region to put the state in, the South to me is clearly the most appropriate choice. LBJ incidentally when he had presidential ambitions in the late 1950's agitated to have TX labeled a Western state, to get away from the baggage associated with the South as the Civil Rights movement was reaching critical mass.

[muon2]

In 2012 the white vote in TX was as close to SC as it was to AZ, KS, and NE (DKE). The Deep South (LA, MS, AL, GA, SC) average Obama white vote was 13.6%. The central and southern Great Plains (OK, KS, NE) was OWV of 25.1%. The Southwest (AZ, NM) was OWV of 36.8%. The average of those three are 25.1% and TX was 23.4%. That certainly suggests a model where TX is only about 1/3 consistent with the South.

I don't know that I entirely trust that DKE data. (For example, that shows Obama's share of Oklahoma whites being cut roughly in half from 2008 to 2012, which doesn't add up to me.) I was only looking at the 2008 exit polls (since they exit polled all 50 states that year). That showed both Texas and South Carolina whites giving Obama 26%. The nearest states to those were Georgia at 23% and Oklahoma at 29%. I suppose it's not really fair to describe the Deep South white vote as a voting bloc. Whites in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama are really in a realm of their own, separate from all other states. However, it's still the case that Texas whites did vote very similar compared to South Carolina and Georgia whites in 2008.

What you are doing is trying to find a single state fit based solely on voting behavior. Many posters here and most geographers recognize that TX is split between different regions. My point is that you can just as easily get the TX value by averaging voting patterns from different adjacent regions.

Yes, Texas has three different cultural strains, but if one had to pick a region to put the state in, the South to me is clearly the most appropriate choice. LBJ incidentally when he had presidential ambitions in the late 1950's agitated to have TX labeled a Western state, to get away from the baggage associated with the South as the Civil Rights movement was reaching critical mass.

I guess since I have spent quite a bit of time in the Dallas Metroplex, and I've had some visits to San Antonio and Austin, but very little to Houston, I have a hard time associating anything TX with the many Southern cities I've visited.

[Torie]

Dallas is pretty darn Southern to me. San Antonio presumably isn't, although I have not been there. Houston in some ways is less Southern to me than Dallas.  In some ways, it even has kind of an LA ambiance. To me, where the primary minority is blacks, it's Southern, where Hispanic, and the cattle start running in lieu of crops, it's Western, and in the Panhandle and the flat as a pancake wheat growing belt, it's Midwestern plains.

[Indy Texas]

Dallas is pretty darn Southern to me. San Antonio presumably isn't, although I have not been there. Houston in some ways is less Southern to me than Dallas.  In some ways, it even has kind of an LA ambiance. To me, where the primary minority is blacks, it's Southern, where Hispanic, and the cattle start running in lieu of crops, it's Western, and in the Panhandle and the flat as a pancake wheat growing belt, it's Midwestern plains.

Dallas was arguably a Southern city originally, but the oil boom and the image the rest of the country projected onto it with the TV series Dallas led to a more Hollywood-version-of-Texas-on-steroids vibe. There's more money in Dallas than in the big Southern cities (Atlanta, New Orleans), but it's newer money and with less gentility or manners. Had JFK not been killed there, it would probably have retained more of a Southern image. But people forget how much hatred was projected onto Texas in general and Dallas in particular after 1963, and the city engaged in a thorough scrubbing of its image afterward.

San Antonio has a vibe that might be described as Ibero-German. Its Hispanic culture is more firmly rooted in the old culture of imperial Spain - you see it in the architecture and when you encounter what might be described as blue-blood Hispanics whose families have lived in Texas longer than just about any Anglo family has. The white settlers in SA were Germans, rather than Scots-Irish or French as was the case in much of Texas; it doesn't have the legacy of a free-wheeling frontier town like Fort Worth or a slow-moving plantation like East Texas. Add in the military bases that were built in the area during the 20th century and the high proportion of active and retired soldiers, and there is an almost Prussian air about the place.

Houston was never as Southern as the rest of that region, but it's a port city and port cities never have the same level of cultural purity as the neighboring inland areas. Too many outsiders coming and going. Before air conditioning and modern plumbing, the place was basically unlivable for half the year unless you wanted to die of malaria or cholera. So Houston more or less didn't exist up until the early 20th century - I can't think of a single building around here that was built in the 19th century and has made it to the 21st. Old money is never all that old. Everyone is from somewhere else. I'm sitting at Starbucks writing this while a black man listens to music at the table to my right and a group of Vietnamese gentlemen converse at the table to my left. My coffee was prepared by a Hispanic woman. A couple of South Asian women in traditional dresses passed through here a little while ago. If a white guy wearing a Confederate flag belt buckle came in here, I doubt he would be well-received.

[Flake]

Texas is a western state, most of the population lies in the western areas, and it's politically more like Arizona/Oklahoma rather than Louisiana/Arkansas.

[Kushahontas]

Texas is a western state, most of the population lies in the western areas, and it's politically more like Arizona/Oklahoma rather than Louisiana/Arkansas.

I've always felt this way.