SENATE BILL: The Duke-Scott Educating The People Reform (Debating)

[Cincinnatus]

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Sponsor: Senator Lumine
Slot: Executive Agenda

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Lumine, you have 24 hours to commence advocacy here of course.

Also Duke and Scott should probably speak on the matter obviously.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Lumine, TNF and myself are now all at the clogging limit.

Good thing the next Non-TNF bill is a bore matter.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Earlier this year, Duke and I agreed to form a partnership on the issue of education reform.  This bill is the first in what we hope to be a series of reforms aimed at achieving that.

The bill, in essence, establishes standards for all public schools in Atlasia and gives smaller schools the opportunity to improve.  It grants teachers autonomy over the schoolbooks they use to educate their students, expands internet access and puts recess back in schools, a period that most students no longer enjoy after elementary school.

We are pleased to present this bill to the Senate and anticipate amendments that will help the bill achieve its goals.

[Lumine]

The President and the Emperor are obviously better at advocating this reform, but I sponsored this bill for I believe it has the potential to address several issues in Education that might be ignored. Section I is mostly common sense to me, I see no reason to charge students for those services which schools can and should provide free of charge. Sections II and III remind me of Duke's earlier Health Care reform which sought to address the technological problem, and (in a personal level) as a college student who constantly uses WiFi in college, I can't tell you how helpful it is. Section IV is also fine with me, I've always been supportive of a certain level of freedom in Education, and since I am not a fan of creationism, I don't mind forbidding textbooks related to that.

The bill is bound to face some discussion focused on (I think) Sections IV, V and the potential expense, but I found it to be a rather solid proposal.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

If we want schools to offer these let's just fund it as opposed to a mandate that is probably unconstitutional.

I don't understand section IV.  Are the teachers choosing the textbooks or are the school districts?

[TNF]

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I have issues with the wording of the climate change mandate in Section 4, and with the removal of standards in section 5. Section 4 also does not seem consistent with itself even in its original form.

[bore]

A few concerns:

1. A lot of the stuff in section 1 is very vague- what does healthcare mean for example?
2. What about rural schools with like 20 people, should they have on site guidance counselors? on't that cost a fortune?
3. The textbook stuff seems to be a disaster waiting to happen, for one thing, most teachers won't need a thousand dollars worth, but others might need more. As well, not every teacher  needs to individually choose the textbook, it makes sense for that to be a schoolwide system, so classes are interchangeable, and there's continuity when people change classes or move up a year. Finally, and this is the big problem to me, even banning creationism (however that's defined) still leaves a huge amount of possible objectionable choices. What about a book teaching homosexuality is evil? Or one advocating, say, atlasian exceptionilism?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You cannot possibly legislate away all the possible ills that school board can do curriculum wise from the Federal Gov't. There has to be a sort of responsbility, and even a process that guides such determinations at the lower level, and such would be more effective at covering all the bases then we can ever be. Certainly the more we relieve them of responsbility, the more we are inviting disaster by surrendering the LEAs and school boards to the worst sort who will treat them as a step in the ladder, or worse, an opportunity to exploit whatever loopholes exist to advance the goals of the special interests that chose them. We need to restore responsbility and motivate people both to pay attention and turnout for elections the local level. The vast majority of people believe in evolution and contrary to all the concern trolling headlines, most probably think the earth is warming because of man but at somewhat less sure on that score. Higher turnout and participation is far more likely to prevent the domination of a school board by an anti-science viewpoint held by a vocal and motivated but small minority.

If you were to do anything, then it should be to demand the restoration to the foundation of science, that of inquiry and organized testing of even the most basically accepted notions. That would have the most postive effect long term and answer far more concerns of this sort then any attempt by the Feds to dictate what the truth is, which sends the exact opposite message. WE also need to stop seeking to pit science against religion at evety turn when such is not necessary and only creates enemies not friends of science.

[Lumine]

Most of TNF's amendment looks fine to me, with the exception of Section V. But, given that is a minor concern, I would consider it friendly. What do the President and the Emperor think?

[Cincinnatus]

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Sponsor Feedback: Friendly
Status:  Senators have 24 hours to object.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I have to object for the reasons that I started above.

Remember an amendment must be on the floor for 24 hours before starting the vote, Cincy.

[Cincinnatus]

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Sponsor Feedback: Friendly
Status:  Objection filed by Senator Yankee.  A vote is now open on the above Amendment.  Senators please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

[President Tyrion]

Aye

I think there's still some work to be done on this, but I like the general direction.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

NAY

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Nay

[TNF]

AYE

Even if you don't agree with all of it, let's at least move forward in securing the reforms here I've added that are worthwhile, from providing day-care to students with children to free and upgraded Internet service to schools.

[bore]

Aye

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Aye.

[Lumine]

Aye.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

If we want schools to offer these let's just fund it as opposed to a mandate that is probably unconstitutional.

I don't understand section IV.  Are the teachers choosing the textbooks or are the school districts?

It's not really a mandate.  The government decides how the public schools are run and provide the appropriate funding for their services.  The teachers choose textbooks that are permitted by the districts.

A few concerns:

1. A lot of the stuff in section 1 is very vague- what does healthcare mean for example?
2. What about rural schools with like 20 people, should they have on site guidance counselors? on't that cost a fortune?
3. The textbook stuff seems to be a disaster waiting to happen, for one thing, most teachers won't need a thousand dollars worth, but others might need more. As well, not every teacher  needs to individually choose the textbook, it makes sense for that to be a schoolwide system, so classes are interchangeable, and there's continuity when people change classes or move up a year. Finally, and this is the big problem to me, even banning creationism (however that's defined) still leaves a huge amount of possible objectionable choices. What about a book teaching homosexuality is evil? Or one advocating, say, atlasian exceptionilism?

Healthcare is pretty much a standard benefit for students.  That part of the bill merely reenforces it.  This bill was crafted shortly before or around the time the glitches in our healthcare system were brought to light, so school-provided medical care might need to be further explored.

As for your second point, I'm honestly not familiar with any rural schools that only have twenty students.  But, regardless of how large a school is, I think we should provide students with access to guidance counselors.

Thirdly, I agree that the textbook section can be improved and the means of funding made more flexible.  We're going to run into problems no matter how we reform our textbook standards, and those problems won't go away as long as education is so politicized, but the least we can do is provide some oversight so that students aren't being taught to a biased or unscientific curriculum.


Now, a question for TNF - why do you believe high school seniors should be allowed to leave school grounds during recess time without earning the privilege first?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I'm not comfortable with section IV's changes. We do have evidence that climate change has been affected by man, but saying we can only teach about that and nothing else is forbidding its study. I'm not looking to dictate anything about that to schools. I don't want them teaching that man made climate change is false, but we don't have any scientific facts that climate change is all man made.

[DC Al Fine]

Nsy

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Like I said, the fact that we have reached a point where we have to dictate "science" from on high, shows that we a bigger cultural problem and resorting to fiat as a substitute for what is supposed to be reasoned inquiry and study is hardly going to strengthen science.