SENATE BILL: The Duke-Scott Educating The People Reform (Debating)
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  SENATE BILL: The Duke-Scott Educating The People Reform (Debating)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: The Duke-Scott Educating The People Reform (Debating)  (Read 11910 times)
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shua
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« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2014, 09:18:57 AM »

Yes, the vote is the cuttof unfortunately. The best way is to fail it then.

NAY

Actually the best is to pass it unanimously.  Smiley
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2014, 07:34:49 PM »

Either way its okay, you wake up with yourself. Sorry, couldn't resist. Tongue

Yea, since bore's eliminates, passing or failing this amendment wouldn't matter, but since you expressed desire for withdrawal I suspected msot would lean towards a nay vote as the expediant path to get to the destination.
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shua
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« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2014, 07:48:29 PM »

Either way its okay, you wake up with yourself. Sorry, couldn't resist. Tongue

Yea, since bore's eliminates, passing or failing this amendment wouldn't matter, but since you expressed desire for withdrawal I suspected msot would lean towards a nay vote as the expediant path to get to the destination.

It must be understood that my desire to withdraw was not an end in itself, but only because I was anxious for a speedy vote on the next amendment.   It is still very possible that bore's amendment will fail, in which case the absence of misquotations of Burke among our list of intellectual grievances will be a great loss for the humanities.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2014, 07:54:35 PM »

Either way its okay, you wake up with yourself. Sorry, couldn't resist. Tongue

Yea, since bore's eliminates, passing or failing this amendment wouldn't matter, but since you expressed desire for withdrawal I suspected msot would lean towards a nay vote as the expediant path to get to the destination.

It must be understood that my desire to withdraw was not an end in itself, but only because I was anxious for a speedy vote on the next amendment.   It is still very possible that bore's amendment will fail, in which case the absence of misquotations of Burke among our list of intellectual grievances will be a great loss for the humanities.

I like Burke as much as any Conservative, but I worry your amendment is too vague to achieve your desired ends regardless, unless you define the misquotation.
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shua
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« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2014, 08:03:54 PM »

Either way its okay, you wake up with yourself. Sorry, couldn't resist. Tongue

Yea, since bore's eliminates, passing or failing this amendment wouldn't matter, but since you expressed desire for withdrawal I suspected msot would lean towards a nay vote as the expediant path to get to the destination.

It must be understood that my desire to withdraw was not an end in itself, but only because I was anxious for a speedy vote on the next amendment.   It is still very possible that bore's amendment will fail, in which case the absence of misquotations of Burke among our list of intellectual grievances will be a great loss for the humanities.

I like Burke as much as any Conservative, but I worry your amendment is too vague to achieve your desired ends regardless, unless you define the misquotation.

Even if it were so, that's a small ambiguity compared to the contested definitions of "creationism" or "climate change."
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #55 on: April 18, 2014, 12:09:43 AM »

Either way its okay, you wake up with yourself. Sorry, couldn't resist. Tongue

Yea, since bore's eliminates, passing or failing this amendment wouldn't matter, but since you expressed desire for withdrawal I suspected msot would lean towards a nay vote as the expediant path to get to the destination.

It must be understood that my desire to withdraw was not an end in itself, but only because I was anxious for a speedy vote on the next amendment.   It is still very possible that bore's amendment will fail, in which case the absence of misquotations of Burke among our list of intellectual grievances will be a great loss for the humanities.

I like Burke as much as any Conservative, but I worry your amendment is too vague to achieve your desired ends regardless, unless you define the misquotation.

Even if it were so, that's a small ambiguity compared to the contested definitions of "creationism" or "climate change."

Which is why I think the whole approach is flawed, that and other reasons.
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Cincinnatus
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« Reply #56 on: April 18, 2014, 03:21:39 PM »

We still have four outstanding votes here..
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #57 on: April 18, 2014, 03:33:50 PM »

I wish we cared more about our children than we are showing. Don't you all love our children?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #58 on: April 18, 2014, 07:48:03 PM »

What hell man? This isn't a Senate election here this thread, you people should be voting. Tongue
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Goldwater
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« Reply #59 on: April 18, 2014, 11:12:37 PM »

NAY
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Lumine
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« Reply #60 on: April 19, 2014, 12:02:52 AM »

Aye.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #61 on: April 19, 2014, 12:35:30 AM »

What hell man? This isn't a Senate election here this thread, you people should be voting. Tongue

If it takes shaming you people to achieve progress, then so be it. Tongue

For the children!
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2014, 09:32:59 AM »

What hell man? This isn't a Senate election here this thread, you people should be voting. Tongue

If it takes shaming you people to achieve progress, then so be it. Tongue

For the children!

What the hell man, I was helping you to shame them. Where you get off saying "you people" Tongue I voted.
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Cincinnatus
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« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2014, 04:44:21 PM »

Vote on Amendment 60:49 by shua:

Aye (2): shua, and Lumine
Nay (6): Talleyrand, Tyrion, Yankee, bore, TNF, and Goldwater
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (2):  DC al Fine, and Alfred

The amendment has been rejected.
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Cincinnatus
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« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2014, 04:47:19 PM »
« Edited: April 20, 2014, 08:25:52 PM by Cincinnatus »

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Sponsor Feedback: Friendly
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object.
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Cincinnatus
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« Reply #65 on: April 20, 2014, 06:50:26 PM »

The amendment has been adopted.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #66 on: April 22, 2014, 06:55:27 PM »

So what's next? The people do need to be educated afterall, or as Joe Biden would say, "This is a big...." Tongue
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Lumine
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« Reply #67 on: April 22, 2014, 08:33:08 PM »

I defer (once again) to Scott and President Duke on this, but with Sections I to III modified by TNF's amendment, I believe the main focus of discussion should remain on Sections IV and V (and my guess is that the only possible change in Section V would be to regulate recess in some way) in order to keep advancing on this. I am of the opinion that it would be better if we could retain some of regulations for the texts, but we seems to fall in something resembling mandate in most cases. Any ideas as to how to improve the language here?
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shua
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« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2014, 08:48:50 PM »

amendment offered:
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TNF
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« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2014, 08:51:08 AM »

I object.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2014, 07:29:18 PM »

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Sponsor Feedback: None Given
Status: OBjected to by Senator TNF. A vote can be started in about an hour and a half.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
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« Reply #71 on: April 23, 2014, 07:31:44 PM »

What is the point of the amendment offered? Schools must offer those things and if they cannot afford it, they can apply for grants so they can afford it. Why do we need to change the wording? So we will set a limit? Do we even know how much money these needy schools will need?
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shua
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« Reply #72 on: April 23, 2014, 09:43:34 PM »

What is the point of the amendment offered? Schools must offer those things and if they cannot afford it, they can apply for grants so they can afford it. Why do we need to change the wording? So we will set a limit? Do we even know how much money these needy schools will need?

It's not enough to say you must do something and you can apply for grants. What if the grants are denied for some reason, or they aren't given enough, or the grant office takes its sweet time?  In that case the schools are required by law to do something they don't have the money for.

Besides that, there are those of us who believe education ought to be pretty much a regional and local matter.  Nothing in the Constitution gives the federal government the authority to micromanage schools, as much as we seem to like to.

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Lumine
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« Reply #73 on: April 23, 2014, 11:53:38 PM »

What is the point of the amendment offered? Schools must offer those things and if they cannot afford it, they can apply for grants so they can afford it. Why do we need to change the wording? So we will set a limit? Do we even know how much money these needy schools will need?

It's not enough to say you must do something and you can apply for grants. What if the grants are denied for some reason, or they aren't given enough, or the grant office takes its sweet time?  In that case the schools are required by law to do something they don't have the money for.

Besides that, there are those of us who believe education ought to be pretty much a regional and local matter.  Nothing in the Constitution gives the federal government the authority to micromanage schools, as much as we seem to like to.

I would argue the last argument seems more of a legal vacuum to me, it doesn't specify that regional governments have the authority as well, that can only be assumed. What will happen if 3 billion are not enough? (and I'm really inclinded to think it won't be enough) Are we going to negate those services just because of concerns over whether the government should or should not be directly involved in Education?

I also don't get the changes in Section III (the wording sounds bad here, but that could be me) and Section V (which I believe was changed already by TNF's amendment).
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shua
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« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2014, 12:02:18 AM »
« Edited: April 24, 2014, 12:04:02 AM by shua »

Section III I just changed because the wording made it sound like $50,000 would be split between all the schools in the nation rather than to every school .

Section V is redundant because Section I already mentions recess.

If $3 billion is not enough for grants than let's figure out how much is.  I almost put that in as TBD, but I figured putting in a dollar amount that we could change later would make more sense.
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