SENATE BILL: The Duke-Scott Educating The People Reform (Debating)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Lumine, you have 24 hours to commence advocacy here of course.

Also Duke and Scott should probably speak on the matter obviously.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Lumine, TNF and myself are now all at the clogging limit.

Good thing the next Non-TNF bill is a bore matter.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I have issues with the wording of the climate change mandate in Section 4, and with the removal of standards in section 5. Section 4 also does not seem consistent with itself even in its original form.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You cannot possibly legislate away all the possible ills that school board can do curriculum wise from the Federal Gov't. There has to be a sort of responsbility, and even a process that guides such determinations at the lower level, and such would be more effective at covering all the bases then we can ever be. Certainly the more we relieve them of responsbility, the more we are inviting disaster by surrendering the LEAs and school boards to the worst sort who will treat them as a step in the ladder, or worse, an opportunity to exploit whatever loopholes exist to advance the goals of the special interests that chose them. We need to restore responsbility and motivate people both to pay attention and turnout for elections the local level. The vast majority of people believe in evolution and contrary to all the concern trolling headlines, most probably think the earth is warming because of man but at somewhat less sure on that score. Higher turnout and participation is far more likely to prevent the domination of a school board by an anti-science viewpoint held by a vocal and motivated but small minority.

If you were to do anything, then it should be to demand the restoration to the foundation of science, that of inquiry and organized testing of even the most basically accepted notions. That would have the most postive effect long term and answer far more concerns of this sort then any attempt by the Feds to dictate what the truth is, which sends the exact opposite message. WE also need to stop seeking to pit science against religion at evety turn when such is not necessary and only creates enemies not friends of science.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I have to object for the reasons that I started above.

Remember an amendment must be on the floor for 24 hours before starting the vote, Cincy.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

NAY

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Like I said, the fact that we have reached a point where we have to dictate "science" from on high, shows that we a bigger cultural problem and resorting to fiat as a substitute for what is supposed to be reasoned inquiry and study is hardly going to strengthen science.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What is "misquoting Edmund Burke" mean actually?


See wht I am saying, you cannot dictate every little thing from on high. You have to establish a process that can followe to make these determinations.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't know what you're talking about, Yankee. Shua's suggestion addresses a real problem that is well within the spirit of this law.

WE seem to be speaking different languages these days, Nix baby.


We have numerous issues where scientific process is being trampled upon, my point is we need to restore the credibility of science in general rather then picking and choosing the politically hot areas of concern only to then foist upon them without any concerns for theo thers.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Lumine, what is your opinion on the amendment?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yes, the vote is the cuttof unfortunately. The best way is to fail it then.

NAY

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Either way its okay, you wake up with yourself. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Yea, since bore's eliminates, passing or failing this amendment wouldn't matter, but since you expressed desire for withdrawal I suspected msot would lean towards a nay vote as the expediant path to get to the destination.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Either way its okay, you wake up with yourself. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Yea, since bore's eliminates, passing or failing this amendment wouldn't matter, but since you expressed desire for withdrawal I suspected msot would lean towards a nay vote as the expediant path to get to the destination.

It must be understood that my desire to withdraw was not an end in itself, but only because I was anxious for a speedy vote on the next amendment.   It is still very possible that bore's amendment will fail, in which case the absence of misquotations of Burke among our list of intellectual grievances will be a great loss for the humanities.

I like Burke as much as any Conservative, but I worry your amendment is too vague to achieve your desired ends regardless, unless you define the misquotation.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Either way its okay, you wake up with yourself. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Yea, since bore's eliminates, passing or failing this amendment wouldn't matter, but since you expressed desire for withdrawal I suspected msot would lean towards a nay vote as the expediant path to get to the destination.

It must be understood that my desire to withdraw was not an end in itself, but only because I was anxious for a speedy vote on the next amendment.   It is still very possible that bore's amendment will fail, in which case the absence of misquotations of Burke among our list of intellectual grievances will be a great loss for the humanities.

I like Burke as much as any Conservative, but I worry your amendment is too vague to achieve your desired ends regardless, unless you define the misquotation.

Even if it were so, that's a small ambiguity compared to the contested definitions of "creationism" or "climate change."

Which is why I think the whole approach is flawed, that and other reasons.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What hell man? This isn't a Senate election here this thread, you people should be voting.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What hell man? This isn't a Senate election here this thread, you people should be voting.

If it takes shaming you people to achieve progress, then so be it.

For the children!

What the hell man, I was helping you to shame them. Where you get off saying "you people" I voted.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So what's next? The people do need to be educated afterall, or as Joe Biden would say, "This is a big...."

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sponsor Feedback: None Given
Status: OBjected to by Senator TNF. A vote can be started in about an hour and a half.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I actually would have voted Aye, if it were just the recess portion. I also agree that we need to hve some handle on the cost and worry about the wording being cosntitutional in the underlying text for section one. That said, I was unsure about Shua's strcuture as an alternative, so I was undecided and apparently took too long to decide one way or the other.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Gets to the point doesn't it.

I will object to force a vote if you desire, Duke, since I am the sponsor and I don't think I can declare my own amendment hostile.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Wouldn't the high school have the motivation for thosel iability reasons to regulate it thus on their own?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Cincy, don't forget my rather small amendment on the previous page.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

When you add this law to all the laws the Senate has already passed on education, it becomes clear that there is no limit to what the Federal Government is willing to do to limit regional and local control over educational policy.  All in all this is just another brick in the wall.

Are you saying we don't need no education?  no dark sarcasm? 

I think shua feels that the federal government should leave them kids alone.

Ya Kint Have Iny Pudding If Ya Dant Eat Yer Meat!!!

Just thought I'd pass it along.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

When you add this law to all the laws the Senate has already passed on education, it becomes clear that there is no limit to what the Federal Government is willing to do to limit regional and local control over educational policy.  All in all this is just another brick in the wall.

At a minimum, it would make sense to review the existing federal education mandates to assess whether they are redundant or in conflict with the contents of this proposal.

That would be the smart play considering what we went through last year. Everyone wants to do something abotu education, but nearly everyone gets in a lather about how to approach it.


BUT IF YER PLACE YER GROPER NASTIES ON SIMFAN AND MINE's GET ACT, YA GIT ANOTHER THING COMING LADDIES!!!!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Did my crap impersonation destroy the debate in here or something?