SENATE BILL: Duke’s Let’s Put Atlasia to Work Program (Law'd)

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Didn't we just establish a tax credit for employment under the tax reform act?

edit: yep.

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[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Nay

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Sorry, I was away for the weekend.

Anyway, in the past we basically give out tax credits to businesses who create new jobs, right? But what about new businesses that don't make any money? Giving out credits to them really accomplishes nothing because they don't pay taxes. This bill aims to allow them to cash in the credits and use them towards building their business as they create jobs. I also want this to apply to green jobs because that is still has untapped potential in our country.

The second part is a business loan program with favorable interest rates. I'll be honest and say the $50 billion was a random number. I am open to changing that to something different, whether it be higher or lower.

So you are saying these tax credits are refundable and the other ones weren't?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Sorry, I was away for the weekend.

Anyway, in the past we basically give out tax credits to businesses who create new jobs, right? But what about new businesses that don't make any money? Giving out credits to them really accomplishes nothing because they don't pay taxes. This bill aims to allow them to cash in the credits and use them towards building their business as they create jobs. I also want this to apply to green jobs because that is still has untapped potential in our country.

The second part is a business loan program with favorable interest rates. I'll be honest and say the $50 billion was a random number. I am open to changing that to something different, whether it be higher or lower.

So you are saying these tax credits are refundable and the other ones weren't?

As far as I know, typical tax credits are redeemable when you pay the tax. If a company isn't making any money, they are not paying taxes and thus cannot take advantage of the credit. Here, I am allowing these new companies to convert the credit into cash and reap the benefits now. Tax credits for start up businesses making no money give them no help at all.

I see - though I believe if they file for taxes, they can receive a tax credit as long as it is a refundable tax credit even if they do not pay any taxes.  So is this going to be in addition to the existing tax credit, so that a business can claim both?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What existing tax credits do we have in place now? These only apply to a specific type of job (new businesses or green jobs), so maybe we can have this replace whatever is in place now for those type of jobs.

Didn't we just establish a tax credit for employment under the tax reform act?

edit: yep.

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also I'm sure we have had tax credits specifically for green jobs, though I don't remember off hand what they are.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Nay

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

how about this?

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Sponsor: Senator Yankee
Slot: Emergency
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[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'm offering it as an amendment then.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

you missed a couple words after "eligible" there Yankee.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

you missed a couple words after "eligible" there Yankee.

I don't see how it happend. I copied it from your post.

yes, that's how you missed it.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

AYE

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

TNF, if you are striking out clause 3, how are you defining "new business" in clause 2?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

NAY

If TNF wants to strike out the (arguably redundant) "cash equivalent" language and lower the amount in business loans I'd be on board with that but the rest of it doesn't make a scintilla of sense to me.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What is the rationale for a federal loan program?   If a bank isn't willing to loan someone money for a business, how does it make sense for the government to step in?   

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What is the rationale for a federal loan program?   If a bank isn't willing to loan someone money for a business, how does it make sense for the government to step in?   

Because we are backing the loan and guaranteeing it to up to 85%. We are basically strong-arming the banks to do as we say.

But why is this a good idea?   

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Maybe the banks have a little bit of a point in not wanting to loan it out - especially with the current business regulatory climate ?  I don't want us to be set up to where we can expect to be bailing a bunch of failing businesses out of debt.  Also, I don't like the idea of the government taking the bulk of the risk but the banks get to collect the interest.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

We actually did have a Small Business Administration that was funded by the Chain Business Differential Tax by this law.   However it looks like in last years budget the SBA disappeared and the money from the tax was spent for other uses. 

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

We actually did have a Small Business Administration that was funded by the Chain Business Differential Tax by this law.   However it looks like in last years budget the SBA disappeared and the money from the tax was spent for other uses. 

The SBA was eliminated with the executive branch reorganization last year.

Why?

I hate this thing we do sometimes where we create a tax specifically to fund a program, then abolish or underfund the program but keep the tax anyway.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

So Duke, do you want a "small business" bank like Nix said or do you prefer the present structure?

Also, should we remove that tax as part of this act since it no longer serves a purpose? What was the tax on exactly and would it benefit employment to remove it?

It is a tax on the profits of businesses with 15 or more outlet or retail locations, that increases with the number of locations.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

If have introduced that as legislation, no? Would you be willing to attach it to either this or your long term unemployment bill?

Uh, could you repeat the question? 

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

You are presently pursuing repealing that tax as standalone legislation, correct?


Would you be game for attaching it to one of these job releated bills, and then provided it passes, withdraw the legislation?

Ah, no, it's easy to get confused.  I introduced legislation repealing the Break the Shell Corporations Act, not the Break the Chains Act. 

As for this tax we are talking about, I think it should be lower at least, but I could also see using a smaller tax as a way to fund a loan program.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

You are presently pursuing repealing that tax as standalone legislation, correct?


Would you be game for attaching it to one of these job releated bills, and then provided it passes, withdraw the legislation?

Ah, no, it's easy to get confused.  I introduced legislation repealing the Break the Shell Corporations Act, not the Break the Chains Act. 

As for this tax we are talking about, I think it should be lower at least, but I could also see using a smaller tax as a way to fund a loan program.

Okay so you game for an amendment that lowers the tax and redirects the remainder to the loan program?

Yes, depending on the loan program.  I don't think I can support just handing the money over to the private banks.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What program would you prefer then?

Would it make sense to just restart the Small Business Administration and make the loans through that?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

How about cutting the chain business tax in half, and dedicating the revenues from that tax (about $19 bil annual) to a reestablished SBA?  Is that something that people could support in place of the current Section 2 of this bill?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

How is this?

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