In which region do Kansas, Nebraska, & the Dakotas fit?

[muon2]

I see those all as Great Plains states (West North Central to the Census). Ranching and crop farming are both seen throughout the area, it's just that as the rainfall drops ranches get bigger and crops need irrigation. Both are agricultural and that forms the basis of the states. The West is anchored in a tradition of mining so the Black Hills are an outlier of the West and are being joined by the oil fields of western ND. But by the same measure eastern CO is an extension of the Great Plains. State boundaries don't follow these cultural lines, so I go with the majority of the population.

The Census map is based on division from a century ago and were designed for statistical tabulation. By the 1950's they recognized that the divisions were outdated, and wanted to make changes like shifting MD, DE and DC. However, data users didn't want to break the chain of statistical data, so no shifts have been made.

To train's comment, MO is becoming less southern as areas like Little Dixie are losing their southern character in favor of a typical rural Midwest. The St Louis and KC metros make up over half the population and they aren't Southern cities. The only really Southern areas are in the Ozarks and Bootheel. The political shifts are more like KS than like the South.

[muon2]

Another way to look at the region is by the type of agriculture. Soybeans are perhaps the most ubiquitous crop of the Midwest as they are the key in most crop rotations. They are a common feature from OH across to ND and down to KS, and only otherwise appear in abundance along the lower Mississippi.

[muon2]

To train's comment, MO is becoming less southern as areas like Little Dixie are losing their southern character in favor of a typical rural Midwest. The St Louis and KC metros make up over half the population and they aren't Southern cities. The only really Southern areas are in the Ozarks and Bootheel. The political shifts are more like KS than like the South.

Thanks for the correction.  I was thinking about things like the religion map (where Missouri is strongly Baptist, like the South), the recent addition of Mizzou to the SEC (and commentators saying that that signified Missouri's increasing allegiance to the South rather than the Midwest), as well as a vague sense that the Ozarks were growing while the KC and STL metros weren't.  But obviously that is all from a distance and I'm glad to be corrected.

The Mizzou to the SEC was in large part due to their rejection by the Big 10 who felt that their academics were not a good match to the rest of the conference.

[muon2]

To train's comment, MO is becoming less southern as areas like Little Dixie are losing their southern character in favor of a typical rural Midwest. The St Louis and KC metros make up over half the population and they aren't Southern cities. The only really Southern areas are in the Ozarks and Bootheel. The political shifts are more like KS than like the South.

Thanks for the correction.  I was thinking about things like the religion map (where Missouri is strongly Baptist, like the South), the recent addition of Mizzou to the SEC (and commentators saying that that signified Missouri's increasing allegiance to the South rather than the Midwest), as well as a vague sense that the Ozarks were growing while the KC and STL metros weren't.  But obviously that is all from a distance and I'm glad to be corrected.

The Mizzou to the SEC was in large part due to their rejection by the Big 10 who felt that their academics were not a good match to the rest of the conference.

Unlike those for Nebraska?

Both Nebraska and Mizzou were considered at about the same time and the academics were found to be different enough for the Big 10 to go with one and not the other according to media reports. There may have been other political factors, but they didn't come out at that time in 2010. It certainly wasn't for TV market or Mizzou would have been preferred.

[muon2]

Of relevance: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/what-states-are-in-the-midwest/

A very timely link.   Thanks.

It is interesting to see the Midwesterners in the poll dis the Dakotas so much. Perhaps spending much of my youth in MN puts the Dakotas closer to the Midwest than other residents see them.

It's also likely that many self-identified Midwesterners in the poll react to their primary image of the state. For many in Chicago and points east their view that's likely to be Mt Rushmore and the Black Hills when they think of the Dakotas. It's a small part of the two states, but if that's their main impression I could see them moving those states to the West.

[muon2]

The Midwest does seem to be of an odd category, combining both "the prairies" and the industrial heartland.  In Canada these are seen as very distinctively different regions.

In Nine Nations of North America, Joel Garreau made the same observation. The plains states were part of the Breadbasket, but most of the Great Lakes states were part of the Foundry. He extended into Canada matching your experience there.

[muon2]

The Midwest does seem to be of an odd category, combining both "the prairies" and the industrial heartland.  In Canada these are seen as very distinctively different regions.

Though in Canada there is a big gap between the areas.  In the USA one could drive from Cleveland to Omaha and gradually transition.  In Canada, a drive from Hamilton to Winnipeg would cross 100s of miles of low-habitation areas.

And Buffalo would hardly be considered a midwestern city, and Hamilton and Toronto are as far east.  This would leave places like Kitchener and Sarnia as the equivalents of the industrial parts of the US Midwest.  So in Canada, the industrial area stops at around Ohio.

Lake Superior acts like an odd gulf between the farmland of the plains and the industrial east. Its economy is based on forestry and mining whether one is in Thunder Bay on the north, Duluth on the west or Marquette on the south. The divide matters in Canada, but not so much in the US where industry transitions smoothly to agricultural cities in IL.

[muon2]

I've always thought of them as part of the West. It makes infinitely more sense politically.

There are only two parties, so groupings based on politics could place together areas that are generally unlike except for their politics - for example one wouldn't treat AR and MT the same despite similar political leanings. The High Plains states may vote like the Rocky Mountain states, but economically and culturally they are mostly not part of the West.