do you support any abortion restrictions?

[DC Al Fine]

Yes and abortionists should get the noose.

Weren't you the one who told me to calm down when I bitched about Harper's austerity or made some hyperbolic statement about 'Purgatories' or something? Double standards much?

You mean this?

Mike Harris is a horrible human being and he should be cooked in an oven.

Yes, that and some other post in some thread where I bitched about Harpo's austerity cuts, I guess.

Hashemite, please. Maybe his comment wasn't appropriate, but you're still one of the biggest hack of this forum has ever had. He doesn't try to always get attention with some awful comments that are always hyperbolic.

What Windjammer said. My behaviour on this forum is usually quite calm, and my comment came from a sincerely held policy position. You on the other hand start calling for heads over a two percent reduction in expenditures.

[Hash]

Yes and abortionists should get the noose.

Weren't you the one who told me to calm down when I bitched about Harper's austerity or made some hyperbolic statement about 'Purgatories' or something? Double standards much?

You mean this?

Mike Harris is a horrible human being and he should be cooked in an oven.

Yes, that and some other post in some thread where I bitched about Harpo's austerity cuts, I guess.

What Windjammer said. My behaviour on this forum is usually quite calm, and my comment came from a sincerely held policy position. You on the other hand start calling for heads over a two percent reduction in expenditures.

So, double standards. My opposition to austerity and Harper's policy is also a 'sincerely held policy position', albeit my hyperbolic comment(s) at the time were not actually an expression of serious opinion (I will not actually bake people in ovens or actually murder politicians or anything like that).

[DC Al Fine]

Yes and abortionists should get the noose.

Weren't you the one who told me to calm down when I bitched about Harper's austerity or made some hyperbolic statement about 'Purgatories' or something? Double standards much?

You mean this?

Mike Harris is a horrible human being and he should be cooked in an oven.

Yes, that and some other post in some thread where I bitched about Harpo's austerity cuts, I guess.

What Windjammer said. My behaviour on this forum is usually quite calm, and my comment came from a sincerely held policy position. You on the other hand start calling for heads over a two percent reduction in expenditures.

So, double standards. My opposition to austerity and Harper's policy is also a 'sincerely held policy position', albeit my hyperbolic comment(s) at the time were not actually an expression of serious opinion (I will not actually bake people in ovens or actually murder politicians or anything like that).

An out of control tongue is no more respectable than out of control bowels Hash.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Oh, shut up.

[Potatoe]

I love how you're dodging an explanation for why you support killing Abortion Doctors.

[Goldwater]

Hashemite, please. Maybe his comment wasn't appropriate, but you're still one of the biggest hack of this forum has ever had. He doesn't try to always get attention with some awful comments that are always hyperbolic.

Stahp, please. And may I remind you that the comment in question was supporting killing people who supported Abortion?

No, it didn't. I said I support the death penalty for abortionists, i.e. people who actually perform abortions.

Wait, you literally support that? I thought you were being hyperbolic...

[DC Al Fine]

I love how you're dodging an explanation for why you support killing Abortion Doctors.

I thought my reasoning was self-evident, but if you want me to state it explicitly...

1) The death penalty should be reserved for especially heinous crimes
2) Murdering a person for profit is an especially heinous crime
3) A fetus is a person
4) Therefore abortionists kill people for money and should receive the death penalty

[Lief 🗽]

I love how you're dodging an explanation for why you support killing Abortion Doctors.

I thought my reasoning was self-evident, but if you want me to state it explicitly...

1) The death penalty should be reserved for especially heinous crimes
2) Murdering a person for profit is an especially heinous crime
3) A fetus is a person
4) Therefore abortionists kill people for money and should receive the death penalty

So the mothers would only get life in prison?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I love how you're dodging an explanation for why you support killing Abortion Doctors.

I thought my reasoning was self-evident, but if you want me to state it explicitly...

1) The death penalty should be reserved for especially heinous crimes
2) Murdering a person for profit is an especially heinous crime
3) A fetus is a person
4) Therefore abortionists kill people for money and should receive the death penalty

So the mothers would only get life in prison?

In the dark world of abortion, the mothers are victims as well, even if they want the abortion. The emotional affects of having an abortion can be quite haunting.

[DC Al Fine]

Oh, shut up.

Sound rebuttal

Hashemite, please. Maybe his comment wasn't appropriate, but you're still one of the biggest hack of this forum has ever had. He doesn't try to always get attention with some awful comments that are always hyperbolic.

Stahp, please. And may I remind you that the comment in question was supporting killing people who supported Abortion?

No, it didn't. I said I support the death penalty for abortionists, i.e. people who actually perform abortions.

Wait, you literally support that? I thought you were being hyperbolic...

Yes. I'm not sure why everyone is so surprised at this.

One can of course disagree that a fetus is a person, and one can disagree with the death penalty, but Hash et al. are shocked that I would want to use the death penalty on people who I think are mass murderers.

[Potatoe]

Okay, what would happen to the mother then? What about cases of Rape or Incest? What about that?

[Flake]

mrw someone equates abortion to mass murders

[Mopsus]

Does anyone else find conservative Christianity's vehement and widespread adoption of the pro-life position to be one of the most interesting facets of contemporary American politics? You'll have to forgive me for my ignorance of Holy Writ, but I've come across precious little in the Bible to even remotely justify this fact.

[traininthedistance]

Does anyone else find conservative Christianity's vehement and widespread adoption of the pro-life position to be one of the most interesting facets of contemporary American politics? You'll have to forgive me for my ignorance of Holy Writ, but I've come across precious little in the Bible to even remotely justify this fact.

IIRC I read an article somewhere that claimed (with a reasonable amount of evidence) that the only reference to abortion in the Bible was a line that basically said, "if a woman has an affair and gets pregnant, the appropriate punishment is to abort the baby."

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I love how you're dodging an explanation for why you support killing Abortion Doctors.

I thought my reasoning was self-evident, but if you want me to state it explicitly...

1) The death penalty should be reserved for especially heinous crimes
2) Murdering a person for profit is an especially heinous crime
3) A fetus is a person
4) Therefore abortionists kill people for money and should receive the death penalty

So the mothers would only get life in prison?

In the dark world of abortion, the mothers are victims as well, even if they want the abortion. The emotional affects of having an abortion can be quite haunting.

Of course, how much of that is due to [the opinions of people similar to those hold by] people like DC?

Post modified by Torie. This one was just over the line, and here is my attempt to teach you how to avoid from going there (and this time, what I think you really meant). Focus on the opinions being toxic in your view, not the person. It is not hard.

[Lief 🗽]

Abortion is an incredibly safe medical procedure. The only "emotional effects" are because abortions are heavily stigmatized. Get rid of the religious nutjobs who want to execute doctors for performing abortions, and women won't be emotionally traumatized from what is a simple, safe and straightforward procedure.

[Torie]

Without knowing what I would find, on the emotional effects on women of having an abortion, I found this. No real negative impact. I find that a bit surprising, since anecdotally I am under the impression, that some women feeling guilty and regretful about having done it down the road. But if so, not enough to roil the waters that much apparently vis a vis their emotional well being.

[Lief 🗽]

Without knowing what I would find, on the emotional effects on women of having an abortion, I found this. No real negative impact. I find that a bit surprising, since anecdotally I am under the impression, that some women feeling guilty and regretful about having done it down the road. But if so, not enough to roil the waters that much apparently vis a vis their emotional well being.

Look at that. Even a pro-choice heathen like myself had bought into the propaganda! Thanks for finding that.

[traininthedistance]

Also worth noting that, back in the day, Evangelicals were often in favor of abortion, though less out of concern for women's rights and more as a way to stop those damn Catholics from breeding so much.

This idea that "abortion = murder" is a way more recent and culturally suspect phenomenon than most pro-lifers are ever able to admit.

[DC Al Fine]

mrw someone equates abortion to mass murders

Do you have anything to contribute besides gifs?

[Torie]

DC, as a point of clarification, I assume that you don't support executing "abortionists" unless and until the commission of effecting an abortion becomes the crime of murder, as in murder in the 1st degree (with aggravated circumstances, typically). Is that correct? In which event, your opinion is sort of entirely hypothetical, since such an act has next to no chance in the US, or in any other developed Western nation, to ever become that serious a crime, if a crime at all. Is it further true that you support the policy of no legal exceptions to the no abortions policy, except perhaps to save the life of the mother? Just curious about the latter.

[DC Al Fine]

DC, as a point of clarification, I assume that you don't support executing "abortionists" unless and until the commission of effecting an abortion becomes the crime of murder, as in murder in the 1st degree (with aggravated circumstances, typically). Is that correct?

Yes

Is it further true that you support the policy of no legal exceptions to the no abortions policy, except perhaps to save the life of the mother? Just curious about the latter.

Life of the mother is the only exception I support. Perhaps there is some other rare situation I would be ok with, but life of the mother is the only major exception I would support.

[DC Al Fine]

You'll have to forgive me for my ignorance of Holy Writ, but I've come across precious little in the Bible to even remotely justify this fact.

"You shall not murder" is in the Bible. The theological question is "what is murder?" not "does the Bible say anything about abortion?"

You see this in the early writings of the Church fathers, where the debate centred around when ensoulment occurs.

This idea that "abortion = murder" is a way more recent and culturally suspect phenomenon than most pro-lifers are ever able to admit.

How recent are you talking? The Didache calls abortion murder and it was written before AD 100.

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[bedstuy]

I think most any law restricting abortion would cross a line where the state invades woman's personal autonomy.  There might be some regulations to keep abortions safe that I would accept, but I think I would trust the medical profession to make those decisions, rather than the legislature. 

But, at the same time, I think I would support repealing Roe v. Wade.

[Mopsus]

You'll have to forgive me for my ignorance of Holy Writ, but I've come across precious little in the Bible to even remotely justify this fact.

"You shall not murder" is in the Bible. The theological question is "what is murder?" not "does the Bible say anything about abortion?"

You see this in the early writings of the Church fathers, where the debate centred around when ensoulment occurs.

Of course the Bible condemns murder. The question that I'm asking is, "Does the Bible consider the termination of a fetus 'murder'"? Here's the only passage that I've ever come across that seems to address the issue:

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...but this passage has multiple issues in itself, ranging from whether to interpret "her fruit depart[ing] from her" as a premature birth or a miscarriage, to what "any mischief follow[ing]" even means. Regardless, I'd say that it's hardly a closed case.