1888 Conventions
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Poll
Question: Finally!
#1
Union Convention: President Grover Cleveland of New York
 
#2
Union Convention: Senator Nelson Aldrich of Rhode Island
 
#3
People's Alliance Convention: General George Custer of Michigan
 
#4
People's Alliance Convention: Senator Joseph F. Smith of Illinois
 
#5
Whig Convention: Senator Newton Booth of California
 
#6
Whig Convention: Governor Zebulon Vance of North Carolina
 
#7
Whig Convention: Merger
 
#8
Radical Convention: Representative John Ingalls of Kansas
 
#9
Radical Convention: Senator Moses Thatcher of Babel
 
#10
Radical Convention: Merger
 
#11
Destiny Convention: Fmr. Representative Samuel Randall of Pennsylvania
 
#12
Destiny Convention: Activist William Walker of Texas
 
#13
Destiny Convention: General George Custer of Michigan
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 29

Author Topic: 1888 Conventions  (Read 2454 times)
#CriminalizeSobriety
Dallasfan65
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« on: April 12, 2014, 09:33:01 PM »

Governor Grover Cleveland was elected to the Presidency with a modest ~52% of the vote. However, despite getting a small majority, the Union Party gained a massive majority in the House of Representatives. While the Radicals and Whigs had agreed to a joint-convention, the procedure had not been so immaculate in down-ballot races. A month after the election, The New York Times reported of one congressional race that had pitted the Union nominee against the People's Alliance, Whig, and Radical parties. This was not the only incident of vote-splitting due to confusion, and the results were disastrous for the Radicals and Whigs.

Emboldened, Grover Cleveland and his Union Party had an ambitious agenda that was befitting of their majority. In 1885, they passed the Blaine-Carlisle Act, which incrementally set the United States to be on a complete gold standard by 1896, as to reduce financial backlash in the silver market. Despite this, the economic downturn started during Cassius Clay's presidency would be prolonged, with a decline in the industrial sector due to the cessation of hostilities with the Lakota and Cheyenne Indians. Another achievement of Cleveland's presidency would be the annexation of Babel. Enticed by Babel's gold reserves, the anti-expansionist Grover Cleveland accepted the annexation with a coalition of Unionists and the remaining Whigs and Radicals, though a sizable amount of his party voted against it. In addition, Cleveland would issue an executive order "to not enforce or recognize, the Anti-Polygamy Act in the newly annexed territories of the Mormons, as they are," in an effort to assuage the concerns of those in Babel.

Though Cleveland is somewhat popular with rank-and-file Unionists, there is some opposition in the establishment, much like there was with President Samuel Tilden. Nelson Aldrich, a young Senator from Rhode Island, is running on a pledge to repeal Blaine-Carlisle in favor of fiat currency, and to roll back Cassius Clay's Railroad Oversight Act. Similarly, he calls Cleveland's annexation of Babel "profane." Cleveland is still expected to win handily at the convention, though the tide could turn.

Despite the disappointing performance of Benjamin Harrison, there are some who wish to stick with the People's Alliance as a new political party outright. George Custer, a popular general and media personality, is considerd the favorite by some. George Custer is fairly moderate, espousing what he calls a "working man's conservatism," and compromises on several issues such as trust regulation, currency, and labor rights. Custer's chief political issue is population of the western territories, which makes him quite "Whiggish." Joseph Smith has abandoned his uncle's Radical Party in an effort to seek the nomination as well, contrasting against Custer's views with a platform entailing education reform, repeal of the Anti-Polygamy Act, and a more overseas-based expansionism.

The Whig Party is in dire straits once more. Their unity ticket with the Radicals failed spectacularly, and now those in the Destiny Party had defected to boot. Senator Newton Booth, though he is getting on in age, is running for a final time. He supports a continuance of federal homesteading, with an especial grant to those willing to populate the Dakota territory. In addition, he he too opposes Blaine-Carlisle, and wishes to switch to an exclusively silver standard. Zebulon Vance of North Carolina is also running. Though a political conservative, Vance's tenure as Governor has been unique in that Jim Crow laws have not been enacted, and that blacks have kept their voting rights. Lastly, there are also some Whigs who wish to support the Western Alliance nominee, and dissolve their party entirely.

The Radicals find themselves in a similar situation. Having lost a sizable amount of non-Mormons to the new People's Alliance Party, there are some who wish to dissolve the party outright and merge. John Ingalls, former Speaker of the House, is running a final time. In addition to supporting annexation of the Dakota territory, Ingalls supports monetary compensation and the option of citizenship for those of the Lakota and Cheyenne tribes, as well as citizenship. Ingalls also supports Clay's railroad regulation, and is calling for further oversights of trusts in general. Moses Thatcher, a young Senator from the new state of Babel, is contesting the Radical nomination as well. Moses Thatcher supports federal temperance legislation, but is out of step with his party in supporting Cleveland's push for the gold standard, having been Treasurer during Babel's period of independence.

Lastly, there is the Destiny Party. Born out of disaffected Whigs, some are skeptical as to whether the party will have relevance if the Whigs and Radicals aren't merged. However, there are some that are optimistic about the party's future, given that they attained 16% of the vote, despite little network and no party machinery. Samuel Randall, the party's chief founder and a former Whig leader in the House, is running for the nomination once more. In addition, former Whig activist William Walker is contending the Presidency on an expansionist platform that would make Randall blush, calling for American control of the entire continent. In addition, there's a movement to nominate George Custer, who is significantly less radical, but is considered a hero in America.

Three days.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2014, 09:35:39 PM »

Re-Elect the President!
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PPT Spiral
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2014, 09:36:58 PM »

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Dereich
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2014, 10:29:11 PM »

I'll go with Zebulon Vance. Let's break the stranglehold with someone, almost anyone will do.
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Zioneer
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2014, 11:00:54 PM »

I like Ingalls, his platform is excellent, and at least he's not yet another Mormon I mindlessly vote for. Tongue
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2014, 07:36:03 AM »
« Edited: April 13, 2014, 08:23:28 AM by Malcolm X »

Senator Zebulon Vance/Senator Henry Teller

Vance gave hundreds of speeches condemning anti-Semitism and calling for Southerners to show more religious tolerance towards non-Protestants in general (and towards Jews in particular). 

In RL, Henry Teller was a Republican Senator from Colorado who supported bimetalism (he supported Bryan in 1896 and switched to the Democratic party over the issue) and strongly opposed the Dawes Act.  His reasons for opposing it were that he correctly believed it was a plot to steal land that rightfully belonged to Native Americans and because the bill was designed to destroy Native-American culture through forced assimilation, and indeed, the Dawes Act was part of the cultural genocide that the U.S. committed against the Native-Americans as a corollary to the more traditional type of genocide against them (a systematic attempt to annihilate all Native-Americans living in the present-day continental U.S.).  Teller also argued that the U.S. should withdraw all troops from Cuba at the end of the Spanish-American war and allow the Cuban people to determine the political future of their country.
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Supersonic
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« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2014, 09:06:27 AM »

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TNF
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2014, 10:29:55 AM »

I suppose I'll be supporting Custer.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2014, 10:37:25 AM »

I suppose I'll be supporting Custer.

Clearly you are an agent provocateur sent by the military industrial complex!
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#CriminalizeSobriety
Dallasfan65
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« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2014, 11:18:42 AM »

I introduce the option to merge, and no one wants to merge. Sad
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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2014, 11:29:40 AM »

Custer '88! Let's get a cowboy in the White House to shake it up from the Eastern elites that have held it for 18 years!
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2014, 11:32:13 AM »

Where would Theodore Roosevelt be at this point in time? In real life, he'd held a seat for a few years in the NY State Assembly, had become a widower, had lost an election for mayor, and had gotten re-married before Harrison made him a Civil Service Commissioner in 1889. With the Union party currently in the hands of its "reform" faction, might he have a good relationship with fellow New Yorker Grover Cleveland? Or is he still out West?

As well, it'd be interesting to see how he might interact with a President Custer.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2014, 12:32:46 PM »

I introduce the option to merge, and no one wants to merge. Sad

The Destiny Party wants to Tongue
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Zioneer
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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2014, 07:39:42 PM »

I swear half the voters are just voting for a name that's famous in real life.
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Flake
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2014, 07:43:17 PM »

I voted for Thatchel instead of Ingalls, sorry for that Tongue
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Dallasfan65
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2014, 08:03:06 PM »

Where would Theodore Roosevelt be at this point in time? In real life, he'd held a seat for a few years in the NY State Assembly, had become a widower, had lost an election for mayor, and had gotten re-married before Harrison made him a Civil Service Commissioner in 1889. With the Union party currently in the hands of its "reform" faction, might he have a good relationship with fellow New Yorker Grover Cleveland? Or is he still out West?

As well, it'd be interesting to see how he might interact with a President Custer.

Roosevelt is a mildly-decorated veteran of the Dakota War and just got elected to the New York Assembly. He's fond of Cleveland's stance on patronage, but is more partial to Cassius Clay's legacy (despite how checkered it may be.) Despite this he tends to eschew the current Union faction's party on tariffs and would like to see more bold action regarding trusts.

I introduce the option to merge, and no one wants to merge. Sad

The Destiny Party wants to Tongue

The Destiny Party will likely survive another election or two regardless. The "merger" option outright consolidates the Whigs and Radicals in favor of the People's Alliance, which would provide for more competitiveness in this series.

I swear half the voters are just voting for a name that's famous in real life.

Are you sure? There's a pretty vocal libertarian-leaning cohort in this series (myself, shua, Deus, Spiral, Max etc) which roughly squares up with Cleveland's vote total, give or take. For the record, I voted Whig: Merger this time.

I do agree that the famous names tend to do better than ones that are less prominent IRL (much to my disappointment) but I don't think it's solely attributable to that.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2014, 08:54:27 PM »

For the record, I did do a quick Wikipedia examination of most of the candidates I hadn't heard of, but none of them were superior to the sound money man currently in the White House.
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Zioneer
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« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2014, 09:15:16 PM »

Where would Theodore Roosevelt be at this point in time? In real life, he'd held a seat for a few years in the NY State Assembly, had become a widower, had lost an election for mayor, and had gotten re-married before Harrison made him a Civil Service Commissioner in 1889. With the Union party currently in the hands of its "reform" faction, might he have a good relationship with fellow New Yorker Grover Cleveland? Or is he still out West?

As well, it'd be interesting to see how he might interact with a President Custer.

Roosevelt is a mildly-decorated veteran of the Dakota War and just got elected to the New York Assembly. He's fond of Cleveland's stance on patronage, but is more partial to Cassius Clay's legacy (despite how checkered it may be.) Despite this he tends to eschew the current Union faction's party on tariffs and would like to see more bold action regarding trusts.

I introduce the option to merge, and no one wants to merge. Sad

The Destiny Party wants to Tongue

The Destiny Party will likely survive another election or two regardless. The "merger" option outright consolidates the Whigs and Radicals in favor of the People's Alliance, which would provide for more competitiveness in this series.

I swear half the voters are just voting for a name that's famous in real life.

Are you sure? There's a pretty vocal libertarian-leaning cohort in this series (myself, shua, Deus, Spiral, Max etc) which roughly squares up with Cleveland's vote total, give or take. For the record, I voted Whig: Merger this time.

I do agree that the famous names tend to do better than ones that are less prominent IRL (much to my disappointment) but I don't think it's solely attributable to that.

Good point, though I don't see how the libertarian-leaners can outvote most everyone else.

Also, can I change my vote to a formal People's Alliance merger?
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2014, 10:14:30 AM »
« Edited: April 14, 2014, 10:23:18 AM by Malcolm X »

Where would Theodore Roosevelt be at this point in time? In real life, he'd held a seat for a few years in the NY State Assembly, had become a widower, had lost an election for mayor, and had gotten re-married before Harrison made him a Civil Service Commissioner in 1889. With the Union party currently in the hands of its "reform" faction, might he have a good relationship with fellow New Yorker Grover Cleveland? Or is he still out West?

As well, it'd be interesting to see how he might interact with a President Custer.

Roosevelt is a mildly-decorated veteran of the Dakota War and just got elected to the New York Assembly. He's fond of Cleveland's stance on patronage, but is more partial to Cassius Clay's legacy (despite how checkered it may be.) Despite this he tends to eschew the current Union faction's party on tariffs and would like to see more bold action regarding trusts.

I introduce the option to merge, and no one wants to merge. Sad

The Destiny Party wants to Tongue

The Destiny Party will likely survive another election or two regardless. The "merger" option outright consolidates the Whigs and Radicals in favor of the People's Alliance, which would provide for more competitiveness in this series.

I swear half the voters are just voting for a name that's famous in real life.

Are you sure? There's a pretty vocal libertarian-leaning cohort in this series (myself, shua, Deus, Spiral, Max etc) which roughly squares up with Cleveland's vote total, give or take. For the record, I voted Whig: Merger this time.

I do agree that the famous names tend to do better than ones that are less prominent IRL (much to my disappointment) but I don't think it's solely attributable to that.

Good point, though I don't see how the libertarian-leaners can outvote most everyone else.

Also, can I change my vote to a formal People's Alliance merger?

I'd urge Dallasfan not to allow this, if people can change their votes than it is only a matter of time before people start manipulating the system.  What if a bunch of Hoover supporters suddenly decided they actually wanted to switch to Garner in the 1932 primary Tongue  I'd argue that the efforts by many Socialist-leaning voters in Cath's first version of this game proved that plenty of people will abuse the system if given the opportunity and allowing people to change their vote encourages this (and btw, how someone really voted in unverifiable).  Additionally, if it is just a one time thing, that'd hardly be fair to anyone else).  Its obviously Dallasfan's call, but I think it'd be a mistake to let anyone change their vote.

On a different note, those supporting a merger (which appears to include at least a plurality of the radical party) could still vote for Vance Tongue  There's no law saying you can't cross party-lines.  For my part, my support or opposition to a merger depends on the candidates, I like Vance better than Smith or Custer, and thus voted for him.  Additionally, I think the last election proved that a Whig/Radical merger wouldn't make things competitive with the Destiny party still floating around.  Lastly, I wonder what the results would look like if we couldn't see them until after the election (I suspect people might vote differently and be less inclined to just play it safe if they didn't know who was a long-shot and who was heavily favored (just a thought).
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
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« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2014, 01:01:30 PM »

How about we compromise with Custer/Vance?
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2014, 01:21:53 PM »
« Edited: April 14, 2014, 01:34:47 PM by Malcolm X »


Custer's a non-starter for me as President, plus you guys got your choice last time.  I suppose I could live with Vance/Custer although unless the other parties line up behind Vance, I'm sticking with Vance/Teller.  In fact, given that Weaver didn't make it on the ticket at all last time, I kinda feel like I'd rather see a Vance/Teller ticket if possible (although again, Vance/Custer is acceptable if there is no other option).  Yeah, the more I think about it I'm sticking with Vance for President.  Maybe we could have Cleveland vs. Vance/Custer vs. Vance/Teller like what the Populists did with the Democrats (the votes for President all went to Bryan, but the Populists ran Watson for Vice-President instead of Sewell).  

Regarding Congressional races, we could split off regionally: Whigs compete in the South and the rural West/Midwest, the People's Alliance on the west coast/the industrial Midwest/Mormon areas, and Radicals in the Northeast.
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« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2014, 01:23:38 PM »


Custer's a non-starter for me as President, plus you guys got your choice last time.  I suppose I could live with Vance/Custer although unless the other parties line up behind Vance, I'm sticking with Vance/Teller.

What's your problem with Custer, hero of the Common Man? Sad
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2014, 01:34:31 PM »


Custer's a non-starter for me as President, plus you guys got your choice last time.  I suppose I could live with Vance/Custer although unless the other parties line up behind Vance, I'm sticking with Vance/Teller.

What's your problem with Custer, hero of the Common Man? Sad

His involvement in the Indian Wars.
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« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2014, 01:35:26 PM »


Custer's a non-starter for me as President, plus you guys got your choice last time.  I suppose I could live with Vance/Custer although unless the other parties line up behind Vance, I'm sticking with Vance/Teller.

What's your problem with Custer, hero of the Common Man? Sad

His involvement in the Indian Wars Tongue 

And yet you'd probably support Theodore Roosevelt who fought in the apparently un-justified Spanish-American War.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2014, 01:47:38 PM »


Custer's a non-starter for me as President, plus you guys got your choice last time.  I suppose I could live with Vance/Custer although unless the other parties line up behind Vance, I'm sticking with Vance/Teller.

What's your problem with Custer, hero of the Common Man? Sad

His involvement in the Indian Wars Tongue 

And yet you'd probably support Theodore Roosevelt who fought in the apparently un-justified Spanish-American War.

No, actually I wouldn't.  TR was a major HP, not really sure why certain liberals like him given that he was never more than a pseudo-reformer.
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