Thoughts on Gay Marriage
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Author Topic: Thoughts on Gay Marriage  (Read 11738 times)
Potatoe
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« on: April 13, 2014, 09:29:09 AM »

'Cuz why not?

Anyway, I support Gay Marriage 100%, and it should be legalized statewide, I'm surprised it's taken the US this long to finally start to support it.
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Supersonic
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2014, 09:33:22 AM »

This old chestnut.

I support, though more from the angle of strengthening marriage and families.

In a US context, I would leave it to the states though.
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Randy Bobandy
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2014, 09:35:31 AM »

We have one of two options. Either legalize gay marriage on a nationwide level, or stop recognizing marriages altogether. It's pretty simple, really.
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Harry
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2014, 09:56:32 AM »

'Cuz why not?

Anyway, I support Gay Marriage 100%, and it should be legalized statewide, I'm surprised it's taken the US this long to finally start to support it.

Gay marriage will be legalized in all 50 states by the Supreme Court on June 30, 2016, which means the U.S. will likely have it everywhere ahead of the United Kingdom, and other countries like Germany, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, etc.
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Potatoe
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« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2014, 10:02:40 AM »

'Cuz why not?

Anyway, I support Gay Marriage 100%, and it should be legalized statewide, I'm surprised it's taken the US this long to finally start to support it.

Gay marriage will be legalized in all 50 states by the Supreme Court on June 30, 2016, which means the U.S. will likely have it everywhere ahead of the United Kingdom, and other countries like Germany, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, etc.
Uh, how the hell do you know this? And the UK (Well, technically England) has legalized gay Marriage, and Scotland's Gay Marriage will pass in August.
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AggregateDemand
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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2014, 10:10:38 AM »

Dubious political initiative, and that's why little progress has been made in the US.

Marriage contract law and relationship law are explicitly biased towards heterosexuality. Marriage precedent confers preferential status upon women, which doesn't particularly make sense in same-sex relationships. Marriage restriction, like kinship restrictions, don't make any sense for same-sex relationships because they can't have biological children.

What justification would a state have for banning same-sex marriage between first cousins or siblings?

Same-sex marriage wouldn't be the end of the world, but it would be a primitive, problematic manifestation of equal rights. Lack of Equal Protection is a problem for all unmarried people.

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CLARENCE 2015!
clarence
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« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2014, 10:32:07 AM »

Who gives a damn if two men or two women love each other and wish to wed... The only people to oppose this are BIGOTS.... B...I...G...O...T...S....... The type of people who used to do this-

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Franzl
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2014, 10:40:55 AM »

'Cuz why not?

Anyway, I support Gay Marriage 100%, and it should be legalized statewide, I'm surprised it's taken the US this long to finally start to support it.

This is one of the issues where the US is generally better than average among Western democracies. Credit where credit is due.
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TNF
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« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2014, 10:42:15 AM »

>2014
>pretending there are any real arguments against legal same-sex marriage

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snowguy716
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« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2014, 10:45:30 AM »

'Cuz why not?

Anyway, I support Gay Marriage 100%, and it should be legalized statewide, I'm surprised it's taken the US this long to finally start to support it.

Gay marriage will be legalized in all 50 states by the Supreme Court on June 30, 2016, which means the U.S. will likely have it everywhere ahead of the United Kingdom, and other countries like Germany, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, etc.
Yeah.  There is an ocean of difference between what the U.S. is like in the minds of people in Europe and what the U.S. is actually like.

In various parts of America, one can conceivably have an abortion while smoking a joint, saying vows to your same sex partner, and have a prostitute visit you during the whole thing.  And unlike some places, you could do all this while reading Mein Kampf.

On the other hand... Europe is actually quite a bit more restrictive and conservative than most Americans believe.
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MurrayBannerman
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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2014, 10:47:46 AM »

We have one of two options. Either legalize gay marriage on a nationwide level, or stop recognizing marriages altogether. It's pretty simple, really.
I would be fine with either of these. Then we can address the problem of it being disadvantageous to be single or choosing not to wed.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2014, 10:57:10 AM »

A lot of Americans seem to be under the apprehension Europe is extremely liberal. Unfortunately they have confused "well-dressed" with "liberal".

That said, I think (Western) Europe supports gay marriage to a greater degree than the US, but the issue may be dormant due to political inertia (Greece, Italy etc.) or coalition deals (Germany).
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Franzl
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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2014, 11:01:35 AM »

A lot of Americans seem to be under the apprehension Europe is extremely liberal. Unfortunately they have confused "well-dressed" with "liberal".

That said, I think (Western) Europe supports gay marriage to a greater degree than the US, but the issue may be dormant due to political inertia (Greece, Italy etc.) or coalition deals (Germany).

I think this is about right.

You'll find a higher level of support for gay marriage in most of Western Europe than in the U.S., although the de facto legal situation is actually better in the States currently.
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Clarko95 📚💰📈
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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2014, 11:09:06 AM »

I'd like to get married sometime. That would be nice.
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snowguy716
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2014, 11:17:13 AM »

I'd like to get married sometime. That would be nice.
Well, you'll have the right by the time you're old enough to think about it Tongue

But if you're really in a jam, you can hop over to IL, IA, or MN for now.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2014, 03:16:34 PM »

Let the Churches decide. But, if we legalize gay marriage, all other forms of marriage must be legalized.

What do you mean by that?
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I Will Not Be Wrong
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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2014, 04:05:18 PM »

Let the Churches decide. But, if we legalize gay marriage, all other forms of marriage must be legalized.
So the churches get to say who can and can't get married. "Rolls eyes"
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Meursault
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« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2014, 04:15:59 PM »

"Ethically right on principle", but it should basically be at the very bottom of the list of priorities for LGBT. It is basically the conservative position.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2014, 04:24:48 PM »

Let the Churches decide. But, if we legalize gay marriage, all other forms of marriage must be legalized.

What do you mean by that?

Presumably polygamy.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2014, 04:38:05 PM »


What on earth does this mean?  We're not talking about church canon, we're talking about state law. 

Could people also stop saying that not recognizing marriages at all would be a good compromise?
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PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald
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« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2014, 05:19:39 PM »

Support. This is the last hurdle for full civil rights.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2014, 05:25:29 PM »

There is no rational argument against it. Opponents complain about the "bigot" label, but obviously opposition to SSM is based an erroneous bias against gay people.  A stupid argument is that disliking gays is OK while disliking blacks is bad, since opposition to homosexuality is supported by "legitimate religious values".  Actually, people can use religious scripture to justify racism or anything else as well.  Homosexuality does not threaten people or society.  People have the right to oppose it personally, and no one is going to force churches to teach that gay marriage is OK, but trying to impose scripture-based hateful values on neighbors they don't even know is repulsive.

Are all opponents of SSM bigots?  I suppose that most SSM-opponents are not exactly like the virulent segregationists of the Jim Crow South, since most SSM-opponents (at least in the US) don't condone violence against gays.  Some people who may oppose SSM are still willing to be friends with me, regardless of my orientation.  They are not bad people overall; we are all probably guilty of mild bigotry at one point or another.

However, opposition to gay marriage is very difficult to respect at all.  It's not like holding different views on economic issues or even abortion (you can actually say abortion harms someone).  Trying to stop the right of gays to get married is rooted in nothing but the belief that gays are so inferior to straights that society's laws must put gays "in their place".  Sorry, but that's bigotry.

I would like to stay single myself, but that should not be for the government to decide.  Society has no business declaring that straights are superior to me.

Not all people who vote to ban gay marriage are bad people on balance, but when people vote for these bans, they are at least oblivious to the fact that passing these bans results the following message from society to struggling, bullied LGBT youth:  

"You're gay, you're not normal, there is something wrong with you, your classmates should not be nice to you, you're not worth it."

This is often the message heard by gays thinking about suicide.


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Randy Bobandy
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« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2014, 06:14:50 PM »

Support. This is the last hurdle for full civil rights.
Not including the drug war...
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AggregateDemand
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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2014, 06:36:43 PM »
« Edited: April 13, 2014, 08:30:04 PM by AggregateDemand »

There is no rational argument against it.

There is no rational argument for SSM. Marriage is just regulations imposed on people who might seek monogamous sexual reproduction. Couples do not need to be married to express love or to be happy or to be sexually gratified.

Lack of marriage privileges for same-sex couples is a calamity because marriage also grants special socio-economic privileges. If you look at the income data, the only family demographic that earns more than median household income is dual income married couples. The current system screws all unmarried people to protect the sanctity of "traditional" single-income married households.

I'm empathetic to the plight of gay couples, but SSM does not fix the problem nor does it represent civil rights victory. It is a silly politically-indulgent skirmish for small-minded people who are eager to avoid dealing with our real problems.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2014, 07:19:41 PM »

Polygamy is a whole different ball game to gay marriage, though. Polygamous societies are predominantly polygynous, so it degrades women and locks many men outside of relationships. Obviously piles of sexually dissatisfied men is bad news for society (don't laugh I'm serious), so I'm suspicious of promoting polygamy.

Marriage equality is simply the law catching up with the cultural redefinition of marriage. Marriage is no longer an economic union or a way to make babies, and it hasn't been for some time. Contemporary marriage is about romantic love between two people, and locking same-sex couples outside of such unions is arbitrary and illogical.

There is no rational argument against it.
I'm empathetic to the plight of gay couples, but SSM does not fix the problem nor does it represent civil rights victory. It is a silly politically-indulgent skirmish for small-minded people who are eager to avoid dealing with our real problems.

Maybe so, but that didn't stop the GOP playing the "defenders of marriage" card throughout the early 2000's. I can't help but feel a bit of Schandenfreude that now the cards are stacked against them, they awkwardly claim that the Democrats are talking about "non-important issues".
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