Oklahoma Strips Cities of the Right to Pass Higher Wages, Sick Leave

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

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The Stranger

I won't make an Oklahoma joke here, seeing as how people here have a hard time understanding sarcasm.

[Lief 🗽]

How Christian of them!

[TDAS04]

Pretty disgusting. 

[Cassius]

How Christian of them!

So you, an atheist (if I'm wrong on this my apologies) are commenting on how 'Christian' vetoing the ability of cities to raise minimum wages is, despite the fact that Fallin never mentioned Christianity when discussing this law, and, more to the point, no where in mainstream Christian teaching is the morality of the minimum wage discussed.

[Supersonic]

Her reasoning makes sense..

[Franzl]

How Christian of them!

If and when an Oklahoman goes to hell, at least they won't notice much difference fr their earthly life.

[Zioneer]

How Christian of them!

So you, an atheist (if I'm wrong on this my apologies) are commenting on how 'Christian' vetoing the ability of cities to raise minimum wages is, despite the fact that Fallin never mentioned Christianity when discussing this law, and, more to the point, no where in mainstream Christian teaching is the morality of the minimum wage discussed.

But there is discussion of fair wages in the Bible.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

I'd imagine Oklahoma is probably hardcore state's rights at this point, but if you take it even further, and an individual city wants to raise wages...

Jokelahoma is the one that never ends.

[Cassius]

How Christian of them!

So you, an atheist (if I'm wrong on this my apologies) are commenting on how 'Christian' vetoing the ability of cities to raise minimum wages is, despite the fact that Fallin never mentioned Christianity when discussing this law, and, more to the point, no where in mainstream Christian teaching is the morality of the minimum wage discussed.

But there is discussion of fair wages in the Bible.

There is discussion of wages in the Bible, and it says that free workers should be paid for their labours. But, I'm not quite sure how any of those passages can be used for (or indeed against) a minimum wage. Sure, they advocate paying the worker his dues, but on the other hand, who decides precisely what those 'dues' are. Is it in relation to how hard the worker has laboured (fairly difficult to define)? The quality of the work he has produced? The quantity? How is one to know what a 'fair wage' is. None of those passages really give any guidance. They establish the principle that workers should be paid for their labours, but they don't really go much further than that.

[MaxQue]

It's an infrigement of cities' rights!

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Mary Fallin is basically the villain in a Christmas movie at this point.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It is sad, but not at all surprising, that people are basing their opinion here not on whether they think it is a good idea for such policies to be set at the local level, but whether they can get the policies they prefer more easily if they are set on the state level or the local level.

I wonder how many proponents here of letting local governments set minimum wages would still be proponents if those governments were wanting to lower the minimum wage to $5/hour or eliminate all requirements that employers offer even unpaid sick leave?

[Maxwell]

This is one of the may reasons why Fallin will not be getting my vote.

[Indy Texas]

It is sad, but not at all surprising, that people are basing their opinion here not on whether they think it is a good idea for such policies to be set at the local level, but whether they can get the policies they prefer more easily if they are set on the state level or the local level.

I wonder how many proponents here of letting local governments set minimum wages would still be proponents if those governments were wanting to lower the minimum wage to $5/hour or eliminate all requirements that employers offer even unpaid sick leave?

That isn't the same thing. If the state minimum wage is $7.25 an hour and a city wants to make their own minimum wage $8.00 an hour, they are still following state law (they're meeting the $7.25 an hour requirement and simply going above and beyond that). If they set it at $5.00 an hour, they would be in violation of state law and not meeting the minimum requirements.

A lower level of government is required to do what the higher level of government mandates. If it wants to do more, it can, but it cannot do less than the minimum that is required.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It is sad, but not at all surprising, that people are basing their opinion here not on whether they think it is a good idea for such policies to be set at the local level, but whether they can get the policies they prefer more easily if they are set on the state level or the local level.

I wonder how many proponents here of letting local governments set minimum wages would still be proponents if those governments were wanting to lower the minimum wage to $5/hour or eliminate all requirements that employers offer even unpaid sick leave?

That isn't the same thing. If the state minimum wage is $7.25 an hour and a city wants to make their own minimum wage $8.00 an hour, they are still following state law (they're meeting the $7.25 an hour requirement and simply going above and beyond that). If they set it at $5.00 an hour, they would be in violation of state law and not meeting the minimum requirements.

A lower level of government is required to do what the higher level of government mandates. If it wants to do more, it can, but it cannot do less than the minimum that is required.

As for as home rule is concerned, what is the difference between a state allowing a local government to set a minimum wage lower than the default state minimum wage and it allowing a local government to set one higher than the state default?  In terms of the desirability of allowing the minimum wage to be set by local governments, there is absolutely no difference.

The only difference I can see that would lead you to prefer only allowing local governments to set higher minimum wages is that you prefer higher minimum wages and thus want to have as many levels of government as possible be able to set them higher.  But unless you are prepared for local governments to set lower minimum wages than the state minimum, or for that matter to allow state governments to set lower minimum wages than than the federal minimum, don't pretend for a second that you are an advocate of local decision making.  Instead, you're engaged in forum shopping for your preferred policy.

[MaxQue]

It is sad, but not at all surprising, that people are basing their opinion here not on whether they think it is a good idea for such policies to be set at the local level, but whether they can get the policies they prefer more easily if they are set on the state level or the local level.

I wonder how many proponents here of letting local governments set minimum wages would still be proponents if those governments were wanting to lower the minimum wage to $5/hour or eliminate all requirements that employers offer even unpaid sick leave?

That isn't the same thing. If the state minimum wage is $7.25 an hour and a city wants to make their own minimum wage $8.00 an hour, they are still following state law (they're meeting the $7.25 an hour requirement and simply going above and beyond that). If they set it at $5.00 an hour, they would be in violation of state law and not meeting the minimum requirements.

A lower level of government is required to do what the higher level of government mandates. If it wants to do more, it can, but it cannot do less than the minimum that is required.

As for as home rule is concerned, what is the difference between a state allowing a local government to set a minimum wage lower than the default state minimum wage and it allowing a local government to set one higher than the state default?  In terms of the desirability of allowing the minimum wage to be set by local governments, there is absolutely no difference.

The only difference I can see that would lead you to prefer only allowing local governments to set higher minimum wages is that you prefer higher minimum wages and thus want to have as many levels of government as possible be able to set them higher.  But unless you are prepared for local governments to set lower minimum wages than the state minimum, or for that matter to allow state governments to set lower minimum wages than than the federal minimum, don't pretend for a second that you are an advocate of local decision making.  Instead, you're engaged in forum shopping for your preferred policy.

Well, it's working currently right now. US decides an minimum wage, states might adopt one which is higher.
Lower governments can mandate higher work conditions, but can't go below the legal minimum.

[Lief 🗽]

It is sad, but not at all surprising, that people are basing their opinion here not on whether they think it is a good idea for such policies to be set at the local level, but whether they can get the policies they prefer more easily if they are set on the state level or the local level.

I wonder how many proponents here of letting local governments set minimum wages would still be proponents if those governments were wanting to lower the minimum wage to $5/hour or eliminate all requirements that employers offer even unpaid sick leave?

That isn't the same thing. If the state minimum wage is $7.25 an hour and a city wants to make their own minimum wage $8.00 an hour, they are still following state law (they're meeting the $7.25 an hour requirement and simply going above and beyond that). If they set it at $5.00 an hour, they would be in violation of state law and not meeting the minimum requirements.

A lower level of government is required to do what the higher level of government mandates. If it wants to do more, it can, but it cannot do less than the minimum that is required.

As for as home rule is concerned, what is the difference between a state allowing a local government to set a minimum wage lower than the default state minimum wage and it allowing a local government to set one higher than the state default?  In terms of the desirability of allowing the minimum wage to be set by local governments, there is absolutely no difference.

The only difference I can see that would lead you to prefer only allowing local governments to set higher minimum wages is that you prefer higher minimum wages and thus want to have as many levels of government as possible be able to set them higher.  But unless you are prepared for local governments to set lower minimum wages than the state minimum, or for that matter to allow state governments to set lower minimum wages than than the federal minimum, don't pretend for a second that you are an advocate of local decision making.  Instead, you're engaged in forum shopping for your preferred policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom

[nuclearneo577]

Oh lord, what a joke. I wonder how long it will take before somebody reverses the damage that this has done.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

It's an infrigement of cities' rights!

Cities don't have inherent rights; they are (at least in Oklahoma and Michigan) creatures of the state.

Oh lord, what a joke. I wonder how long it will take before somebody reverses the damage that this has done.

Has it done any damage?  Was any city proposing to pass a higher wage or sick leave law?  If not, no damage was actually done.

[MaxQue]

It's an infrigement of cities' rights!

Cities don't have inherent rights; they are (at least in Oklahoma and Michigan) creatures of the state.

As Oklahoma Territory was a creature of the US government.

[badgate]

Oh lord, what a joke. I wonder how long it will take before somebody reverses the damage that this has done.

Has it done any damage?  Was any city proposing to pass a higher wage or sick leave law?  If not, no damage was actually done.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

ThinkProgress: Governor Bans Minimum Wage Increases And Paid Sick Leave Laws

[Indy Texas]

It is sad, but not at all surprising, that people are basing their opinion here not on whether they think it is a good idea for such policies to be set at the local level, but whether they can get the policies they prefer more easily if they are set on the state level or the local level.

I wonder how many proponents here of letting local governments set minimum wages would still be proponents if those governments were wanting to lower the minimum wage to $5/hour or eliminate all requirements that employers offer even unpaid sick leave?

That isn't the same thing. If the state minimum wage is $7.25 an hour and a city wants to make their own minimum wage $8.00 an hour, they are still following state law (they're meeting the $7.25 an hour requirement and simply going above and beyond that). If they set it at $5.00 an hour, they would be in violation of state law and not meeting the minimum requirements.

A lower level of government is required to do what the higher level of government mandates. If it wants to do more, it can, but it cannot do less than the minimum that is required.

As for as home rule is concerned, what is the difference between a state allowing a local government to set a minimum wage lower than the default state minimum wage and it allowing a local government to set one higher than the state default?  In terms of the desirability of allowing the minimum wage to be set by local governments, there is absolutely no difference.

The only difference I can see that would lead you to prefer only allowing local governments to set higher minimum wages is that you prefer higher minimum wages and thus want to have as many levels of government as possible be able to set them higher.  But unless you are prepared for local governments to set lower minimum wages than the state minimum, or for that matter to allow state governments to set lower minimum wages than than the federal minimum, don't pretend for a second that you are an advocate of local decision making.  Instead, you're engaged in forum shopping for your preferred policy.

Again, it's a question of whether they are meeting the state standards or not.

If the state minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, then a minimum wage that is higher than that is compliant. If the state is saying "You may not pay your workers less than $7.25 an hour" and a city says "You may not pay your workers less than $8.00 an hour," then the city has met the test of not paying workers less than $7.25 an hour.

If the city passed a law saying "You may not pay your workers less than $5.00 an hour" then that law is either in conflict with the state law or it is superceded by it. You can't make a logical argument in favor of letting cities have minimum wages lower than the state level without negating the whole purpose of a statewide minimum wage.

It's not forum shopping.

Texas has a certain set of bans on abortion. If Travis County (Austin) wanted lower regulations on abortion, they should not be allowed to do so. If they wanted more regulations on top of the state ones, that would be fine. But they have to be in compliance with what is decided at the state level.

[Indy Texas]

Her reasoning makes sense..

Why should she care?

If Oklahoma City raised their minimum wage to an absurd level and "killed jobs" then the businesses and the jobs would just move to Norman or somewhere else nearby. All the better for Norman. Sucks to be OKC. Mary Fallin isn't tasked with looking after OKC. She's tasked with looking after Oklahoma and for Oklahoma as a whole it's a wash.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

It's an infrigement of cities' rights!

Cities don't have inherent rights; they are (at least in Oklahoma and Michigan) creatures of the state.

As Oklahoma Territory was a creature of the US government.

I don't understand your point.

Oh lord, what a joke. I wonder how long it will take before somebody reverses the damage that this has done.

Has it done any damage?  Was any city proposing to pass a higher wage or sick leave law?  If not, no damage was actually done.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

ThinkProgress: Governor Bans Minimum Wage Increases And Paid Sick Leave Laws

A petition to do something and actually getting close to accomplishing it are two different things.  I'm not up-to-date on the Oklahoma labor situation, but did this petition actually have a decent chance of bringing about any change?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It is sad, but not at all surprising, that people are basing their opinion here not on whether they think it is a good idea for such policies to be set at the local level, but whether they can get the policies they prefer more easily if they are set on the state level or the local level.

I wonder how many proponents here of letting local governments set minimum wages would still be proponents if those governments were wanting to lower the minimum wage to $5/hour or eliminate all requirements that employers offer even unpaid sick leave?

That isn't the same thing. If the state minimum wage is $7.25 an hour and a city wants to make their own minimum wage $8.00 an hour, they are still following state law (they're meeting the $7.25 an hour requirement and simply going above and beyond that). If they set it at $5.00 an hour, they would be in violation of state law and not meeting the minimum requirements.

A lower level of government is required to do what the higher level of government mandates. If it wants to do more, it can, but it cannot do less than the minimum that is required.

As for as home rule is concerned, what is the difference between a state allowing a local government to set a minimum wage lower than the default state minimum wage and it allowing a local government to set one higher than the state default?  In terms of the desirability of allowing the minimum wage to be set by local governments, there is absolutely no difference.

The only difference I can see that would lead you to prefer only allowing local governments to set higher minimum wages is that you prefer higher minimum wages and thus want to have as many levels of government as possible be able to set them higher.  But unless you are prepared for local governments to set lower minimum wages than the state minimum, or for that matter to allow state governments to set lower minimum wages than than the federal minimum, don't pretend for a second that you are an advocate of local decision making.  Instead, you're engaged in forum shopping for your preferred policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom

So?  All I see here is an argument against any local control of minimum wage n the grounds that it cannot be adequately decided at that level.  And I certainly agree with that.  It certainly does not need to be set at a local level.