Are Muslims ready for democracy? The view from Denmark.

[ingemann]

I thought this article was an interesting as a start for an discussion. I dislike the headline, because I don't think the article answer it, and I don't think any article could answer it (more than a article saying the same about Christians, Atheists etc.). As for the person in the article; Henrik Dahl was when I was younger not only the most well known sociologist in Danish popular culture, he was also a important voice on the left, later he has grown disillusioned with the Danish left, through (beside this article) he has not come with statements which are supportive of the right. Mostly he has criticised persons on the left (like the PM) and condemned the left for having little vision beside growing the public sector.

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/08/28/are-muslims-ready-for-democracy-lessons-from-denmark/

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[Antonio the Sixth]

Considering the DFP's numbers, the Danes might not be ready for democracy either.

[ingemann]

Considering the DFP's numbers, the Danes might not be ready for democracy either.

...and you're clearly not ready for democracy either, DPP for all I dislike them, are a non-violent organisation which respect rule of law and election results. But a intolerant anti-democrat like you are clearly unable to respect the fact that people don't think the same as you.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Considering the DFP's numbers, the Danes might not be ready for democracy either.

...and you're clearly not ready for democracy either, DPP for all I dislike them, are a non-violent organisation which respect rule of law and election results. But a intolerant anti-democrat like you are clearly unable to respect the fact that people don't think the same as you.

Oh, you mean like the people who judge an entire religious group based on a few anecdotes and the usual garnish of stereotyping and generalizations?

[Хahar 🤔]

It's not clear to me what about this is new or interesting at all.

[SPC]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines

[Meursault]

Of course the Muslim is ready for democracy. In many ways he is more purely democratic than the Western man. And therein lies the problem: Islamic democracy is an illiberal democracy; it chooses raw majoritarianism over selective protectioms for minorities. Don't criticize Islam for being incompatible with democracy, then, but with liberalism.

[MaxQue]

The same article could be written in Louisiana or Kansas, with Baptists/Evangelicals replacing Muslims.

The issue isn't Islam, it's religious fundamentalism.

[ingemann]

Considering the DFP's numbers, the Danes might not be ready for democracy either.

...and you're clearly not ready for democracy either, DPP for all I dislike them, are a non-violent organisation which respect rule of law and election results. But a intolerant anti-democrat like you are clearly unable to respect the fact that people don't think the same as you.

Oh, you mean like the people who judge an entire religious group based on a few anecdotes and the usual garnish of stereotyping and generalizations?

What did you think I meant with the bolded line.

I thought this article was an interesting as a start for an discussion. I dislike the headline, because I don't think the article answer it, and I don't think any article could answer it (more than a article saying the same about Christians, Atheists etc.). As for the person in the article; Henrik Dahl was when I was younger not only the most well known sociologist in Danish popular culture, he was also a important voice on the left, later he has grown disillusioned with the Danish left, through (beside this article) he has not come with statements which are supportive of the right. Mostly he has criticised persons on the left (like the PM) and condemned the left for having little vision beside growing the public sector.

I meant that the headline was insulting, but I thought the rest of the article was interesting enough that I could ignore the headline.

Ironic that someone condemning other for turning their nose against the social science, ignoring an article where the person interviewed are sociologist. But I guess expects in the social science are only relevant when they say and think the same as you.

[ingemann]

Of course the Muslim is ready for democracy. In many ways he is more purely democratic than the Western man. And therein lies the problem: Islamic democracy is an illiberal democracy; it chooses raw majoritarianism over selective protectioms for minorities. Don't criticize Islam for being incompatible with democracy, then, but with liberalism.

Crap, everyone love the dictatorship of the majority when they're in majority, there nothing especially Muslim about that.

[ingemann]

The same article could be written in Louisiana or Kansas, with Baptists/Evangelicals replacing Muslims.

The issue isn't Islam, it's religious fundamentalism.

Of course we could, and nobody would lift an eyebrow if we condemned those people for those things, but raising the precisely same question against an illiberal "non-White" non-Christian group and the people who can not condemn the people in Louisiana or Kansas fast enough, raise Hell. There are a lot of liberal Muslims, just as there are a lot of liberal people in Louisiana or Kansas, but for some reason, it's not them who are able to dominate the debate or getting the backing of the silent majority of their own group.

[Lurker]

How is someone like Naser Khader viewed in Denmark's Muslim community? Does his views on integration and Islamism have much support?

(For non-Danes: Khader is a Danish Muslim politician. I know him primarily for often changing political parties, and for being a critic of radical Islam).

[ingemann]

How is someone like Naser Khader viewed in Denmark's Muslim community? Does his views on integration and Islamism have much support?

(For non-Danes: Khader is a Danish Muslim politician. I know him primarily for often changing political parties, and for being a critic of radical Islam).

Most Muslims I have talked with about him, and most Muslims who talk about him in the media, have a negative opinion of Khader. Some describe him in racist term (as a oreo), other more Muslims (both liberal and illiberal) can really just not stand the the man. Honestly I understand the latter. I have dealt with many members of the Social Liberals, and even while he was member of the party he was despised for being a glory hound and lazy (really the worst sin in a politician, worse than stupidity). Nothing that I have seen from him indicate that they wasn't correct.

[politicus]

How is someone like Naser Khader viewed in Denmark's Muslim community? Does his views on integration and Islamism have much support?

(For non-Danes: Khader is a Danish Muslim politician. I know him primarily for often changing political parties, and for being a critic of radical Islam).

He is mainly seen as a "coconut" (brown outside and white inside), basically even secular Muslims see him as too eager to please the Danes. Also after his party switches Khader has generally lost his popularity and is a marginal and often a bit ridiculed figure in the eyes of the public, all though his views on the Syrian Civil War are respected.

[Foucaulf]

I really like pork too, but to call a daycare board banning it a "grim story" is a bit hyperbolic. Will the author react the same way if a Canadian city elected a majority of vegans to the school board?

[Citizen Hats]

I really like pork too, but to call a daycare board banning it a "grim story" is a bit hyperbolic. Will the author react the same way if a Canadian city elected a majority of vegans to the school board?

Would Canadians?

Probably. But they wouldn't react at all if said schoolboard banned horseflesh. Oh look! cultural informed food taboos!

[Meursault]

Of course there's nothing uniquely Islamic (or Arabic) about their preference for an illiberal, majoritarian democracy. Most people the world over are illiberal majoritarians. I myself am illiberal to an extreme, but my antipathy for democracy and my hostility towards religion tempers this. Majoritarianism simly manifests more frequently in Islamic political life.

[Famous Mortimer]

It's not so much that most Muslims aren't ready for democracy, it's that most Muslims aren't ready for human rights.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Considering the DFP's numbers, the Danes might not be ready for democracy either.

...and you're clearly not ready for democracy either, DPP for all I dislike them, are a non-violent organisation which respect rule of law and election results. But a intolerant anti-democrat like you are clearly unable to respect the fact that people don't think the same as you.

FLAME WAR!