SENATE BILL: The Public means Public Act (Redraft Law'd)
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  SENATE BILL: The Public means Public Act (Redraft Law'd)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: The Public means Public Act (Redraft Law'd)  (Read 12060 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: April 20, 2014, 12:49:10 AM »
« edited: July 06, 2014, 01:29:44 AM by Senator North Carolina Yankee »

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Sec. of State Superique
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 08:14:26 AM »

It's not my business to be here but I would say that the panhandling clause worries me. What about agressive panhandling?
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TNF
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2014, 09:38:22 AM »

It's not my business to be here but I would say that the panhandling clause worries me. What about agressive panhandling?

See Subsection 3 of Section 2.

This bill will bring a halt to the creeping criminalization of poverty that has sprung up with the onset of the Great Recession.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2014, 03:32:27 PM »

This measure has my most earnest support.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2014, 11:24:27 PM »

I'm cool with section 2. Section 1 and 3 may need some work. I'm not in favor of prohibiting cities from controlling the homeless. I know, I know, I am a terrible person, but if there are no controls over them, it will drive people away from these cities and then we will just have more overrun and dying areas on our hands, and that is good for none of us.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
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« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2014, 05:01:14 AM »

I'm cool with section 2. Section 1 and 3 may need some work. I'm not in favor of prohibiting cities from controlling the homeless. I know, I know, I am a terrible person, but if there are no controls over them, it will drive people away from these cities and then we will just have more overrun and dying areas on our hands, and that is good for none of us.

Or, you know, we could give them all a home.
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bore
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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2014, 10:25:36 AM »

I don't think the right to be in a public area is absolute. For instance, the pavement is a public space, but if I were to fall asleep across the entrance to a busy shop, I should be moved on. If someone is ruining an area for others, which is certainly possible, the government should be able to stop.

Obviously though, someone who's homeless and sleeping on park benches shouldn't be being constantly moved on. Perhaps the bill should be narrowed so it's only in force at night time (say, 11 till 7:30) and explicitly refers to parks?

The question I'm interested in, is whether atlasia gives the homeless guaranteed accommodation.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2014, 07:19:35 PM »

Scott was working on a proposal to do that in the IDS. Not sure if the other regions have addressed it yet or are going to.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2014, 10:38:36 PM »

Scott was working on a proposal to do that in the IDS. Not sure if the other regions have addressed it yet or are going to.
The Northeast has this.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2014, 01:08:27 AM »

What does the PAcific have?
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TNF
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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2014, 10:10:38 AM »

I'm not entirely sure how to modify the panhandling provision in a way that would be suitable to the Senate, but for the time being I'm going to offer this amendment.

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2014, 08:13:19 PM »

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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2014, 11:11:50 AM »

The estimate for the northeast's bill given by then GM Griffin was $6.783 billion, and extrapolating this to the whole country would give roughly 37 and a quarter billion dollars, so about 40 billion should cover everything.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2014, 01:58:18 PM »

I'm cool with section 2. Section 1 and 3 may need some work. I'm not in favor of prohibiting cities from controlling the homeless. I know, I know, I am a terrible person, but if there are no controls over them, it will drive people away from these cities and then we will just have more overrun and dying areas on our hands, and that is good for none of us.

Or, you know, we could give them all a home.

A lot of people who panhandled are not homeless. Some just do it because it's an easy way to get money from those who are generous.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2014, 06:56:39 PM »

Too early to declare the amendment passed.


Should we cover the whole the cost or a percentage thereof? I would prefer the latter, because certainly the Regions can be expected to cover some percentage if the NE and probably the IDS (haven't checked recently to see what the status of that is, just too much going on) are looking to cover all of it already.

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Cincinnatus
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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2014, 07:35:03 AM »

With no objection, Amendment 60:65 is adopted.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2014, 06:06:50 PM »

Well, what about my question?
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« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2014, 07:38:53 AM »


It doesn't really bother me either way. Having said that the NE and the IDS are already providing these services entirely out of their own pocket, so it might make sense to just make a service an obligation of the regional government like education, with maybe a few grants or whatever.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2014, 08:10:13 PM »

So maybe $20 billion grants? That is still a large sum of money and would probably need a funding stream of some kind.
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« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2014, 01:11:23 PM »

This seems like the type of thing that should be cost effective, certainly the Utah bill ends up saving money. The more I think about it the more inclined I am just to leave it as an obligation of the regional governments, but if we're doing grants I think it should be a bit less and on a needs basis.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2014, 02:30:15 AM »

$5 billion?
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« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2014, 10:15:35 AM »


Yeah, I think that'll be fine.

Proposing an amendment:

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TNF
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« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2014, 10:50:23 AM »

Friendly.
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Cincinnatus
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« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2014, 06:30:16 PM »
« Edited: April 30, 2014, 04:01:50 PM by Cincinnatus »

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2014, 05:21:03 AM »

I object, on the grounds that I would worry about the wording of the last clause being constitutional.
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