SENATE BILL: The Public means Public Act (Redraft Law'd)
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  SENATE BILL: The Public means Public Act (Redraft Law'd)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: The Public means Public Act (Redraft Law'd)  (Read 12080 times)
bore
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« Reply #225 on: June 25, 2014, 10:23:34 AM »

What's the difference in unconstitutionality between banning laws stopping people from sleeping in their cars and sleeping on the streets?
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Potus
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« Reply #226 on: June 25, 2014, 10:28:23 AM »

What's the difference in unconstitutionality between banning laws stopping people from sleeping in their cars and sleeping on the streets?

They own their cars?
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #227 on: June 25, 2014, 10:33:24 AM »

What's the difference in unconstitutionality between banning laws stopping people from sleeping in their cars and sleeping on the streets?

That's a good question. My thought is that people should have the liberty to sleep in their personal property without prosecution for crimes, and people own their cars, while people do not own public places this bill allows them to use as their personal homes or camping grounds.

Plus, from a public policy viewpoint, one sleeping in their car doesn't harm anyone else, while people loitering and sleeping in public buildings and places can harm other people, whether it be directly or indirectly.

I could see that clause being unconstitutional too, but less so than the federal government saying to the regions that they must build housing projects or we will forbid them from enacting anti-loitering laws.

From my perspective, if we give them money for public housing expansion, I see no reason why they wouldn't take it. It's not like they can take it and use it for other purposes given the strings we've put on it.
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bore
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« Reply #228 on: June 25, 2014, 03:09:24 PM »

Riley and Duke, I understand that there is a difference in the type of arguments you can make for sleeping in cars versus on the street, and I understand how, as a matter of policy you can argue for one but against the other.

What I don't understand is the difference in constitutionality between the federal government saying that regions can't ban sleeping in cars and it saying they can't ban sleeping in parks. Surely if one is unconstitutional, so is the other, and if one isn't, then the other can not be either?
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #229 on: June 25, 2014, 03:24:54 PM »

I've fixed the redraft. I do think you make good points and I'm not sure we can, at the federal level, forbid regions from making not making laws like that.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
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« Reply #230 on: June 25, 2014, 05:19:59 PM »

I can't say I like what the President has done to this bill and I'd rather just have DemPGH pass it, so unless convinced otherwise I'll be voting no on the redraft in order to introduce it under a more favorable administration..
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #231 on: June 25, 2014, 05:25:11 PM »

I can't say I like what the President has done to this bill and I'd rather just have DemPGH pass it, so unless convinced otherwise I'll be voting no on the redraft in order to introduce it under a more favorable administration..

Which part don't you like? The parts I removed will just be struck down if someone sues over it. And section 2 is redundant because protections against illegal searches and seizures already exist in our constitution.
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TNF
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« Reply #232 on: June 26, 2014, 09:42:01 AM »

I completely and utterly oppose the redraft.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #233 on: June 26, 2014, 09:50:02 AM »

Hey, I wanted to simply give the regions money to build homes for the homeless. I'm not signing anything that bans anti-loitering laws because one, it is unconstitutional and will be struck down and two, as Nix pointed out, a large portion of panhandlers are not even homeless. I want to help the homeless.

But if you all wish to reject this, so be it, I won't be that upset. Tongue
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shua
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« Reply #234 on: June 26, 2014, 10:20:35 AM »

If we do move forward with this redraft, the name needs to be changed.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #235 on: June 26, 2014, 10:31:30 PM »

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I actually think we can repeal laws against sleeping in cars using the pre-emptive powers of the constitution. The rest, well, the federal government doesn't have any right to restrict or have any say in municipally owned property because it's not federally owned property.

Now, I know that TNF wants to take all property under federal control, but until that happens, property laws don't allow us to do what we want to do. We can buy those parks and then allow the poor to sleep in them. All we can really regulate are federally owned property. There are no federal laws restricting loitering in municipally owned parks because the federal government doesn't have the power to do that. Does anyone understand this concept?

I want to pass a form of this bill so we can get people homes and expand housing for the poor. I'm not interested in giving them a park bench to sleep on. I want to give them a roof over their head. I'd hate to see this fail because we're caught up on trying to legislate something we have no power to legislate.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #236 on: June 26, 2014, 11:13:15 PM »

I missed the last vote; I won't miss this one. Can't we just override?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #237 on: June 27, 2014, 04:06:28 AM »

Once per bill, the PResident may offer a redraft. The sponsro can choose between withdrawing the bill or putting the redraft to a vote. If the vote fails, the sponsor can decide between resuming debate or sending it back to the President as is. If he were to veto it at that point, a veto override can be requested at that point.

The votes being their for an override is not a certainty either.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #238 on: June 27, 2014, 04:06:55 AM »

Duke you should change the title like shua recommended.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #239 on: June 27, 2014, 04:07:20 AM »

Or and we have 24 hour minimum debate time on the redraft.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #240 on: June 27, 2014, 09:34:12 AM »

I don't understand why people want to kill off public housing expansions to fight over a bill with things in it we either cannot do as the federal government, in the case of regulating state/municipally owned parks, or redundant statements like section 2 that just rehashes our constitutional protections against illegal searches and seizures that already exist.

But it doesn't matter. If the senate rejects my redraft, they reject it.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #241 on: June 28, 2014, 07:40:36 AM »

What about the title, Mr. President?
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TNF
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« Reply #242 on: June 28, 2014, 10:14:17 AM »

Let's vote to kill the redraft.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #243 on: June 28, 2014, 01:45:39 PM »


We can rename it to embody what we are really trying to do here, which is expanding public housing and giving people a home. Maybe "expand regional public housing act" or something like that.

I'm hoping the majority doesn't vote this down and agrees with me that redundancy in our legislation is poor quality control on the senate's part. All the clauses I've stricken are redundant or things we already can't do anyway. I'll be disappointed if this is rejected over those reasons.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
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« Reply #244 on: June 28, 2014, 07:12:53 PM »

Motion to vote on the redraft.
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TNF
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« Reply #245 on: June 29, 2014, 10:33:32 AM »

Seconded.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #246 on: July 01, 2014, 12:59:11 AM »


There isn't another opportunity to change the title before the redraft vote. Tongue


Senators a vote is now open on the redraft with the 24 hours having lapsed, sEnators please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain:

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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #247 on: July 01, 2014, 01:45:59 AM »

Nay
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #248 on: July 01, 2014, 09:55:10 AM »

Nay.
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bore
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« Reply #249 on: July 01, 2014, 10:22:26 AM »

Aye

I would like to pass this bill, but the constitution says what the constitution says, and us voting for this won't change that. This is the best we can do on a federal level.
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