What didn't the electorate like about the 1980s democratic party?
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  What didn't the electorate like about the 1980s democratic party?
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Author Topic: What didn't the electorate like about the 1980s democratic party?  (Read 1073 times)
Matty
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« on: April 23, 2014, 12:55:49 AM »

With all the talk about the toxic GOP brand of the 2000s and its similarities to the struggles of the 1980s democrats, what Democratic planks/platforms, etc made them "unpopular" in the 80s? Or was it more just the republicans exploiting bigotry and prejudices of white people?
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Meursault
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2014, 01:21:58 AM »

It wasn't so much a negative response to the Democrats of the 80s (the DLC misdiagnosed the Party's problems) as it was voters retroactively taking revenge on the Party for the 1960s. Note, for instance, that the number of self-identified pro-life proponents was actually lower in the Reagan era than in our contemporary period.
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Reaganfan
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2014, 04:16:53 AM »

I remember hearing once that President Reagan came into office in 1981 and mentioned to someone that he wanted to return America to a place before the 1960s and 1970s ruined it.

With the exception of some positive aspects of the Civil Rights era and Women in workplace, I genuinely believe America would have been better had New Years Eve 1959 led into New Years Day 1980.

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Meursault
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2014, 04:22:26 AM »

And you'd be astonishingly wrong for myriad reasons (not the least of which being that Reaganaut conservatism was the antithesis of the conservatism of the 1950s; there were more contradictions than commonalities between them.).
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Reaganfan
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2014, 04:43:30 AM »

And you'd be astonishingly wrong for myriad reasons (not the least of which being that Reaganaut conservatism was the antithesis of the conservatism of the 1950s; there were more contradictions than commonalities between them.).

No it's absolutely correct that the 60s and 70s did more harm than good. They were the drunk and hungover decades. The 1980s were when we sobered up, showered, shaved, and took things seriously again.

Man in the Gray Flannel Suit and Working Girl are examples of American economic progress. The garbage in between was unnecessary and hurt our country.
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Meursault
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2014, 04:53:41 AM »

You've utterly missed my point, Naso: you don't get the 1980s without the 1960s and 1970s, for an immense number of reasons. For instance - Man In The Grey Flannel Suit, that emodiment of staid Eisenhower organizational capitalism, is the antithesis of the Yuppie Reagan individualistic capitalism. It took the inward-focused counterculture, with its "Okay To Be Me" and Human Potential Movements, to get from A to B.
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Potatoe
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2014, 04:57:25 AM »

And you'd be astonishingly wrong for myriad reasons (not the least of which being that Reaganaut conservatism was the antithesis of the conservatism of the 1950s; there were more contradictions than commonalities between them.).

No it's absolutely correct that the 60s and 70s did more harm than good. They were the drunk and hungover decades. The 1980s were when we sobered up, showered, shaved, and took things seriously again.

Man in the Gray Flannel Suit and Working Girl are examples of American economic progress. The garbage in between was unnecessary and hurt our country.
Okay, you guys were drunk in the '60s? So, Trading Weapons with Iran for money for Death Squads in Nicaragua, trying to veto an Aparthied Sanctions bill, Tax Hikes, large Deficits, those were all Sober things?
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Reaganfan
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2014, 05:01:50 AM »

You've utterly missed my point, Naso: you don't get the 1980s without the 1960s and 1970s, for an immense number of reasons. For instance - Man In The Grey Flannel Suit, that emodiment of staid Eisenhower organizational capitalism, is the antithesis of the Yuppie Reagan individualistic capitalism. It took the inward-focused counterculture, with its "Okay To Be Me" and Human Potential Movements, to get from A to B.

Not specifically true. I'm well aware of the capitalistic and business differences of the "Mad Men" era versus "Material Girl/Wall Street" era you speak of. However, one drastic change was that it was as if the boomers grew up into their parents viewpoints to a greater extent only later than normal.
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Meursault
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2014, 05:11:15 AM »

The Boomers [/i]never[/i] "grew into their parents' views" (though they think they have). I'm on a phone and so cannot post links, but Google 'There Is A Policeman Inside Our Heads - He Must Be Destroyed'. It'll take you to an Adam Curtis documentary that makes a compelling case that Reaganomics was actually a structural adjustment of capitalism to the anti-institutional value set of the counterculture, not simply a throwback to the institutional, conformist capitalism of the 1950s. You are positing continuity; you should instead look for an epistemological break.
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Meursault
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2014, 05:46:45 AM »

And on a (literally) lighter note, spoken, as it were, in your language: what do you the omnipresent pastels of the 1980s were, if not the pale shade of 1968s tie-dye psychedelia? And there is a reason Michael Mann chose "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" for the climax of Manhunter.
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2014, 06:40:36 AM »

Jimmy Carter, that's what.  Ever heard of malaise and stagflation?
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Potatoe
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2014, 06:46:41 AM »

Jimmy Carter, that's what.  Ever heard of malaise and stagflation?
You do realize that both those things would happen regardless of who was President 1977-1981?
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2014, 07:06:11 AM »

It's simple: the Republican Party was offering more handouts and freebies at the time than the Democrats. People were told by President Jelly Belly that they could receive massive amounts of tax cuts without ever having to pay for them through spending cuts; the modern Republican Party, its explosive tendencies of debt accumulation and the beginning of our debt problems were born.  The older generation at the time - accustomed to voting Democrat - could jive with Reagan's message of "we'll give you more social programs and more money, but the only thing standing in the way of doing that are all of these welfare queens and young bucks". Herego the Reagan Dixiecrats.

Of course, the concept of selfish entitlements and a "me, me, me" attitude rang true with the Baby Boomers, who have no doubt been the worst generation of human beings ever to walk this planet. The attitude shift wasn't one of maturity, but rather one of embracing the next phase of selfish entitlement in their already-privileged lives. In the 60s and 70s, it was all about protest culture and free love because that's what kept their asses safe and out of war. Unlike their parents - who actually knew hardship - when they started working, they wanted to keep all of it for themselves. That mentality has recently gave way to the desire to cut and cut and cut program after program to preserve their own entitlements as they draw nearer to Death's Door, and is the only response/solution to a lifetime of them pissing away everything every previous generation worked so hard to build. Truly an entitled bunch, from the cradle to the grave.

In summary, a combination of all reward and no sacrifice, massive amounts of credit fueling unrealistic and unsustainable economic growth/the ability to live outside their means, and the promise from Reagan and Republicans to deliver on all of that - backed by strong-arming the vulnerable Democratic caucus into acquiescing - was what pushed the selfish and materialistic Baby Boomers into the Republican Party as their generation began voting en mass. The "Reagan Democrats" play a part, sure, but it was the sway of the Baby Boomers that created the political climate of the 1980s. Now, they're freaking out because they see the Millennials beginning to rip their electoral power away from them and restoring the country to the economic principles that existed before they spent a lifetime plundering it. Here's to hoping they won't get to spend their final years doing what they've been doing for decades.
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AggregateDemand
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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2014, 08:40:49 AM »

Political economics changed in the 1970s and the electorate realized the need for change after stagflation. Democrats were not ready to move on. To this day, many Democrats are still not ready to evolve. Instead, they insist upon maintaining the bureaucracy of the status quo, which spends more money per capita and delivers fewer economic benefits than any other nation on earth.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2014, 08:54:28 AM »

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Cory
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« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2014, 10:04:43 AM »

It's simple: the Republican Party was offering more handouts and freebies at the time than the Democrats. People were told by President Jelly Belly that they could receive massive amounts of tax cuts without ever having to pay for them through spending cuts; the modern Republican Party, its explosive tendencies of debt accumulation and the beginning of our debt problems were born.  The older generation at the time - accustomed to voting Democrat - could jive with Reagan's message of "we'll give you more social programs and more money, but the only thing standing in the way of doing that are all of these welfare queens and young bucks". Herego the Reagan Dixiecrats.

Of course, the concept of selfish entitlements and a "me, me, me" attitude rang true with the Baby Boomers, who have no doubt been the worst generation of human beings ever to walk this planet. The attitude shift wasn't one of maturity, but rather one of embracing the next phase of selfish entitlement in their already-privileged lives. In the 60s and 70s, it was all about protest culture and free love because that's what kept their asses safe and out of war. Unlike their parents - who actually knew hardship - when they started working, they wanted to keep all of it for themselves. That mentality has recently gave way to the desire to cut and cut and cut program after program to preserve their own entitlements as they draw nearer to Death's Door, and is the only response/solution to a lifetime of them pissing away everything every previous generation worked so hard to build. Truly an entitled bunch, from the cradle to the grave.

In summary, a combination of all reward and no sacrifice, massive amounts of credit fueling unrealistic and unsustainable economic growth/the ability to live outside their means, and the promise from Reagan and Republicans to deliver on all of that - backed by strong-arming the vulnerable Democratic caucus into acquiescing - was what pushed the selfish and materialistic Baby Boomers into the Republican Party as their generation began voting en mass. The "Reagan Democrats" play a part, sure, but it was the sway of the Baby Boomers that created the political climate of the 1980s. Now, they're freaking out because they see the Millennials beginning to rip their electoral power away from them and restoring the country to the economic principles that existed before they spent a lifetime plundering it. Here's to hoping they won't get to spend their final years doing what they've been doing for decades.

Perfect.
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Cassius
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« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2014, 10:19:14 AM »

It's simple: the Republican Party was offering more handouts and freebies at the time than the Democrats. People were told by President Jelly Belly that they could receive massive amounts of tax cuts without ever having to pay for them through spending cuts; the modern Republican Party, its explosive tendencies of debt accumulation and the beginning of our debt problems were born.  The older generation at the time - accustomed to voting Democrat - could jive with Reagan's message of "we'll give you more social programs and more money, but the only thing standing in the way of doing that are all of these welfare queens and young bucks". Herego the Reagan Dixiecrats.

Of course, the concept of selfish entitlements and a "me, me, me" attitude rang true with the Baby Boomers, who have no doubt been the worst generation of human beings ever to walk this planet. The attitude shift wasn't one of maturity, but rather one of embracing the next phase of selfish entitlement in their already-privileged lives. In the 60s and 70s, it was all about protest culture and free love because that's what kept their asses safe and out of war. Unlike their parents - who actually knew hardship - when they started working, they wanted to keep all of it for themselves. That mentality has recently gave way to the desire to cut and cut and cut program after program to preserve their own entitlements as they draw nearer to Death's Door, and is the only response/solution to a lifetime of them pissing away everything every previous generation worked so hard to build. Truly an entitled bunch, from the cradle to the grave.

In summary, a combination of all reward and no sacrifice, massive amounts of credit fueling unrealistic and unsustainable economic growth/the ability to live outside their means, and the promise from Reagan and Republicans to deliver on all of that - backed by strong-arming the vulnerable Democratic caucus into acquiescing - was what pushed the selfish and materialistic Baby Boomers into the Republican Party as their generation began voting en mass. The "Reagan Democrats" play a part, sure, but it was the sway of the Baby Boomers that created the political climate of the 1980s. Now, they're freaking out because they see the Millennials beginning to rip their electoral power away from them and restoring the country to the economic principles that existed before they spent a lifetime plundering it. Here's to hoping they won't get to spend their final years doing what they've been doing for decades.

Methinks this rests upon to many generalisations Tongue

Anyway, whilst I'm obviously no expert, my tuppence on this is that, basically, a lot of people were rather enthused by the Republican party's message in the 1980's (lower taxes, fighting crime and drugs, 'toughness' when it came to foreign policy), whereas the Democratic party failed, really, to offer a compelling alternative. I mean, from what I've read, the campaigns of Mondale and Dukakis were pretty stale and flat, offering little in the way of inspiration. Also, the less than brilliant record of Democrats in office during the late 70's was a bit of a millstone around the party's neck (and a memory that would be resuscitated to great effect by the Republicans throughout the 1980's).
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2014, 10:52:50 AM »

Jimmy Carter, that's what.  Ever heard of malaise and stagflation?
You do realize that both those things would happen regardless of who was President 1977-1981?

Perceptions of culpability can be very wrong.

Carter probably lost because of the Iranian takeover of the US embassy in Teheran. Would that have happened had Gerald Ford been re-elected? Who knows?

The Shah was going down, whoever was President of the United States. 
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2014, 11:40:36 AM »

Jimmy Carter, that's what.  Ever heard of malaise and stagflation?
You do realize that both those things would happen regardless of who was President 1977-1981?

Not necessarily.  A lot of Carter's problems can be laid at the feet of the disaster he appointed to be Fed Chair, William Miller, and it unlikely that anyone else, Republican or Democrat would have nominated him.  To be fair, neither Carter nor anyone else could have known ahead of time that Miller would prove so inept that he needed to be promoted to Treasury Secretary to get him out of the way, but I'm convinced that all else remained the same and Carter appointed anyone else, he likely would have been reelected in 1980.
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Badger
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« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2014, 12:11:52 PM »

I love how Naso based his interpretation of the 80's merits based on movies he's watched. Roll Eyes
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