France: new Regions

[Georg Ebner]

The EU seemingly tries to establish ~100 EUregios, 16 for Germany and about 12 for UK, Italy and France. Therefor the new Valls-government plans to abolish France's 96+ Dep. (quasi a revolution versus the Revolution...) and to create bigger regions.
A first overview of them can be found at fr.wikipedia (for example).

[Antonio the Sixth]

My 20-region plan from another thread:

1. Île-de-France
2. Grand Paris
3. Lyonnais

There's really no point in having less regions than 20 or so. You'd end up lumping things that have no business being put together.

[Simfan34]

They are trying to abolish the départements?!!!

[Antonio the Sixth]

They are trying to abolish the départements?!!!

Well, that would actually be a good thing. Départements are useless, redundant and outdated. Regions, on the other hand, ought to be strengthened instead of being treated like crap.

[Tieteobserver]

Why does France stick to being an Unitarian country anyway, rather than federalising, like its neighbour to the east?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Why does France stick to being an Unitarian country anyway, rather than federalising, like its neighbour to the east?

Because that would imply that Paris politicians renounce to some of their power.

[Хahar 🤔]

Rule from Paris is a tradition that dates back to the Revolution. It's not changing.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Also, here are the 2012 margins of victory under my regions map.

Massif Central: Hollande+17 (Auvergne is 13.8 and Limousin is 27.6)
Midi-Pyrénées: Hollande+15.9 (no change)
Aquitaine: Hollande+13.1 (no change)
Bretagne: Hollande+12.7 (exactly the same as RL Bretagne, amazingly)
Grand Paris: Hollande+12 (RL IdF is 6.6)
Nord: Hollande+8.3 (no change)
Poitou-Charente: Hollande+4.8 (RL Poitou is +11)
Normandie: Hollande+3.5 (HN is H+5.1 and BN is H+1.7)
Languedoc-Roussillon: Hollande+2.8 (RL is 2.3)
Île-de-France: Hollande+1.1 (RL IdF is 6.6)
Picardie: Hollande+0.6 (RL is 1.9)
Lorraine: Sarkozy+1.7 (RL is 2.2)
Val-de-Loire: Sarkozy+2.4 (PDL is H+2.3 and Centre is S+1,1)
Lyonnais: Sarkozy+2.5 (Rh-Alp is S+4)
Bourgogne-Franche-Comté: Sarkozy+3.8 (Bourgogne is H+1.5, FC is S+2)
Savoie-Dauphiné: Sarkozy+4.2 (Rh-Alp is S+4)
Champagne: Sarkozy+7.8 (RL is 8.2)
Corse: Sarkozy+11.7 (no change)
Provence-Côte-d'Azur: Sarkozy+15.8 (RL is 15.2)
Alsace: Sarkozy+24.9 (RL is 26.8)

[Tieteobserver]

Southern France is historically more conservative, right-wing, than the rest of the country, or thats just how things happened on this election?

[Sol]

Antonio, doesn't the Paris agglomeration extend well to the east of Île-de-France, into your Picardy? Maybe separate the Parisian suburbs out from the more rural sections, or put them with Grand Paris?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Southern France is historically more conservative, right-wing, than the rest of the country, or thats just how things happened on this election?

First off, it's only southeastern France (ie Provence and parts of Languedoc). The Southwest, on the other hand, is the largest left-wing stronghold in the entire country.

The Southeast has become very right-wing over the last three decades, and this trend is tied to the rise of the FN and right-wing populism in general. Up until the 80s, it was actually a pretty left-leaning region. See for example the 1974 presidential map (nationwide it was a narrow right-wing victory):

[Antonio the Sixth]

Antonio, doesn't the Paris agglomeration extend well to the east of Île-de-France, into your Picardy? Maybe separate the Parisian suburbs out from the more rural sections, or put them with Grand Paris?

Yeah, you're right, I made a mistake putting Seine-et-Marne into Picardie. I should rework my map a bit, but I'l too lazy to do that now.

[Sol]

Sorry. Didn't mean to peck at yer map.

Southern France is historically more conservative, right-wing, than the rest of the country, or thats just how things happened on this election?

First off, it's only southestern France (ie Provence and parts of Languedoc). The Southwest, on the other hand, is the largest left-wing stronghold in the entire country.

The Southeast has been very right-wing for two or three decades, and this trend is tied to the rise of the FN and right-wing populism in general. Up until the 80s, it was actually a pretty left-leaning region. See for example the 1974 presidential map:

Interesting. Why is Brittany so conservative on that map, compared to Sarkozy/Hollande? Is it tied to Breton nationalism?

[MaxQue]

Sorry. Didn't mean to peck at yer map.

Southern France is historically more conservative, right-wing, than the rest of the country, or thats just how things happened on this election?

First off, it's only southestern France (ie Provence and parts of Languedoc). The Southwest, on the other hand, is the largest left-wing stronghold in the entire country.

The Southeast has been very right-wing for two or three decades, and this trend is tied to the rise of the FN and right-wing populism in general. Up until the 80s, it was actually a pretty left-leaning region. See for example the 1974 presidential map:

Interesting. Why is Brittany so conservative on that map, compared to Sarkozy/Hollande? Is it tied to Breton nationalism?

It's not just Brittany, it's the whole Great West (Brittany, Pays de la Loire, Poitou-Charentes, Basse-Normandie).

The Great West did the reverse movement of the South East. It trended qite hard to the left. It's very christian-democrat and very moderate. Christian organisations were very powerful. Most socialist politicians from that area were members of Christian Youth movements (whether the Workers Christian Youth or the Farmers Christian Youth) and are quite social democrats.

I often saw the hypothesis than those became popular because PS became more moderate and less anti-clerical. It's an humanist religion, not a fan of neoliberalism or right-wing economics. And, later, than the UMP moved to the right on those issues and on social issues (like immigration) led the right less attractive to them. It's a very moderate area.

[Zanas]

It's basically only a pathetic attempt at electoral gerrymandering for a miserably failing PS to still keep a tiny hope of retaining a few regions in 2016. (A bit) more on my blog.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Nothing good will come out of this.

[Hash]

Nothing good will come out of this.

I've read somewhere that some people (including vile traitorous trash Ayrault) are proposing a 'reunification-merger' of BZH and "Pays de la Loire" as a whole in some sick disgusting 'Grand Ouest' supercrapregion. So I suppose it could get even worse than originally proposed.

Le Monde has maps of what other parties are proposing: unsurprisingly, only EELV has its head screwed on right here, while the UDI (and FN, but that's no shocker) is even more demented.

Flanby's demise cannot come soon enough.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Hollande's single chance would have been to simply bind 2 regions together, with no further discussions.

Hollande's single chance would have been to not start this mess to begin with.

[Hatman 🍁]

So, this is all happening to appease the EU? What other countries will be doing this?

[ObserverIE]

FN ... is even more demented.

Zone Libre, Zone Occupée, and Elsaß-Lothringen?

[ObserverIE]

only EELV has its head screwed on right here

Is there a natural reason for splitting Gard?

[Hash]

only EELV has its head screwed on right here

Is there a natural reason for splitting Gard?

Yes, there's a very important geographic divide in the department between the mountains of the Cévennes (more or less lining the border with Lozère) on the one hand and the urban centre of Nîmes and the Vallée du Rhône/Petite Camargue. There are major economic, agricultural, cultural, historical, social and political differences between these regions; certainly the Vallée du Rhône - particularly places like Villeneuve-lès-Avignon - is much closer in economic/social/cultural/political terms to similar regions in PACA while the broader region outside the Cévennes has a broader 'Mediterranean' orientation leaning towards Provence.



EELV justifies its proposal by the dialect boundary between languedocien and provençal which more or less reflects the Cévennes vs. the rest boundary (although from what I can see, it would leave the Cévennol mining basin and Alès in 'greater PACA' which kind of contradicts their map, although they may have a point, given that the western half it gives to Languedoc+ is turned towards Montpellier in real terms more than the region around Alès). I don't think it's a pressing issue or egregious injustice (unlike the continued Pétainiste division of BZH), but it's an interesting proposal.

So, this is all happening to appease the EU? What other countries will be doing this?

Where on earth are you getting this idea from / what on earth are you talking about? This is all Flanby and co's making, under the false pretense of 'increasing regional competitiveness' and 'saving costs' and the inevitable bid of every French government in the past decades to destroy or vandalize regional government, so that regions become nothing more than central planning regions imposing diktat. I suggest you read one of my rants on this topic.

[Hatman 🍁]

So, this is all happening to appease the EU? What other countries will be doing this?

Where on earth are you getting this idea from / what on earth are you talking about? This is all Flanby and co's making, under the false pretense of 'increasing regional competitiveness' and 'saving costs' and the inevitable bid of every French government in the past decades to destroy or vandalize regional government, so that regions become nothing more than central planning regions imposing diktat. I suggest you read one of my rants on this topic.

The OP seemed to suggest this.

[Zanas]

One important point : there used to be a ceiling for the number of regional elected councillors somewhere in the proposed bill. It's not there anymore. So somehow, the PS manages to make a regional reform to cut costs without cutting costs. At least, without cutting costs in terms of elected officials' allowances (is that the word for indemnité d'élu ?). Regional levels of the State's administrations will, however, end up being merged saving a bit of money, nothing close to how much the Government would need to do anything, obviously.

Of course, the only way to make a sensible territorial reform in France would be to vastly "intercommunalize" things in terms of public service, leaving the communal level to exist as only symbolic, if at all.

[Zanas]

Then again, the Assemblée nationale has the last say on things, and in this particular case will almost certainly revert to its original proposal.