The War on Educators rages on in Chicago
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  The War on Educators rages on in Chicago
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Author Topic: The War on Educators rages on in Chicago  (Read 2671 times)
Snowstalker Mk. II
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« on: April 23, 2014, 10:11:42 PM »
« edited: April 23, 2014, 10:14:22 PM by Snowstalker »

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/27013667-418/despite-pleas-and-protests-cps-board-turns-three-schools-over-to-private-operator.html#.U1iAAfldVia

Another blow in the war that the forces of private capital have declared under the guise of "education reform". Rahm is a corrupt greedy schemer who I'm sure should be in jail for something and certainly shouldn't be holding public office. Drastic action must be taken to stop him from striking again and selling even more of this troubled city to his colluding friends. I'm sure that this will get put in the "Sage Garden" (which for months has been a way to punish me for expressing my opinions at all), but some things really make my blood boil.
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MurrayBannerman
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2014, 10:24:11 PM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2014, 10:29:08 PM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.

They are indeed underfunded and overcrowded and the teachers are treated as entirely disposable. But selling these schools off, if history is any guide, will benefit no one but those who own and profit from the schools.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2014, 10:29:59 PM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.

We realize that, but we fail to see how giving them to a for-profit corporation will improve them.
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MurrayBannerman
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2014, 10:38:48 PM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.

We realize that, but we fail to see how giving them to a for-profit corporation will improve them.
They're turning over management of the schools, not selling them like the toll road.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2014, 10:39:59 PM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.

We realize that, but we fail to see how giving them to a for-profit corporation will improve them.
They're turning over management of the schools, not selling them like the toll road.

I was never convinced than better leadership would improve schools.
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MurrayBannerman
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2014, 10:42:02 PM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.

We realize that, but we fail to see how giving them to a for-profit corporation will improve them.
They're turning over management of the schools, not selling them like the toll road.

I was never convinced than better leadership would improve schools.
Well, when these schools have dumb problems, like bad attendance when they don't make it compulsory, I'm more convinced that it will.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2014, 10:45:54 PM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.

We realize that, but we fail to see how giving them to a for-profit corporation will improve them.
They're turning over management of the schools, not selling them like the toll road.

I was never convinced than better leadership would improve schools.
Well, when these schools have dumb problems, like bad attendance when they don't make it compulsory, I'm more convinced that it will.

Well, if the issue is than the leadership is incompetent, you replace it, you don't give the school to a private corporation.

Corporations goal is to make money. Running a non-profit school seems to be a money sink. The only way they could make money of of it is by putting the money which would be used to run the school in their pockets. It would be a terrible use of taxpayers money.
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MurrayBannerman
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2014, 10:49:51 PM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.

We realize that, but we fail to see how giving them to a for-profit corporation will improve them.
They're turning over management of the schools, not selling them like the toll road.

I was never convinced than better leadership would improve schools.
Well, when these schools have dumb problems, like bad attendance when they don't make it compulsory, I'm more convinced that it will.

Well, if the issue is than the leadership is incompetent, you replace it, you don't give the school to a private corporation.

Corporations goal is to make money. Running a non-profit school seems to be a money sink. The only way they could make money of of it is by putting the money which would be used to run the school in their pockets. It would be a terrible use of taxpayers money.
That's what they're doing. AUSL manages the school and has done so with great results.

From the article:
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Once again, they're not selling the schools or privatizing them.
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Zioneer
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2014, 11:49:09 PM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.

We realize that, but we fail to see how giving them to a for-profit corporation will improve them.

Agreed. I attended two charter high schools and from what I could gather, they weren't any better than some of the public schools near my area. Perhaps slightly better teachers, but there was burnout among the teachers because of it.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2014, 11:59:07 PM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.

We realize that, but we fail to see how giving them to a for-profit corporation will improve them.
They're turning over management of the schools, not selling them like the toll road.

I was never convinced than better leadership would improve schools.
Well, when these schools have dumb problems, like bad attendance when they don't make it compulsory, I'm more convinced that it will.

Well, if the issue is than the leadership is incompetent, you replace it, you don't give the school to a private corporation.

Corporations goal is to make money. Running a non-profit school seems to be a money sink. The only way they could make money of of it is by putting the money which would be used to run the school in their pockets. It would be a terrible use of taxpayers money.
The school is being turned over to a non-profit organization.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2014, 11:59:36 PM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.

We realize that, but we fail to see how giving them to a for-profit corporation will improve them.

Agreed. I attended two charter high schools and from what I could gather, they weren't any better than some of the public schools near my area. Perhaps slightly better teachers, but there was burnout among the teachers because of it.
What do you mean by "burnout?"
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2014, 02:12:37 AM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.

We realize that, but we fail to see how giving them to a for-profit corporation will improve them.
They're turning over management of the schools, not selling them like the toll road.

I was never convinced than better leadership would improve schools.
Well, when these schools have dumb problems, like bad attendance when they don't make it compulsory, I'm more convinced that it will.

Students in those schools likely aren't showing up because...
- they have no way of getting there
- their parents don't care whether they go or not
- they're scared to (because of gang violence or drugs or what have you)

If you want to fix Chicago's public schools, the trick is to make the students all upper-middle-class, give them well-educated, employed parents, and ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds that are scrubbed clean of the aftereffects of things like discrimination, segregation, slavery and immigrant issues. Now all you have to do is find a way to do all of that.
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Zioneer
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2014, 08:58:48 AM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.

We realize that, but we fail to see how giving them to a for-profit corporation will improve them.

Agreed. I attended two charter high schools and from what I could gather, they weren't any better than some of the public schools near my area. Perhaps slightly better teachers, but there was burnout among the teachers because of it.
What do you mean by "burnout?"

They leave after a few years for different schools. Usually public schools in other parts of the state, in fact. It doesn't seem to be frustration with students though. Seems to be clashing with faculty, especially in the second charter high school I attended (when there was a "constitutionalist" ideological bias by the charter members, and when Glenn Beck clips were occasionally played in school as "something to think about and agree with").
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MurrayBannerman
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2014, 09:11:17 AM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.

We realize that, but we fail to see how giving them to a for-profit corporation will improve them.
They're turning over management of the schools, not selling them like the toll road.

I was never convinced than better leadership would improve schools.
Well, when these schools have dumb problems, like bad attendance when they don't make it compulsory, I'm more convinced that it will.

Students in those schools likely aren't showing up because...
- they have no way of getting there
- their parents don't care whether they go or not
- they're scared to (because of gang violence or drugs or what have you)

If you want to fix Chicago's public schools, the trick is to make the students all upper-middle-class, give them well-educated, employed parents, and ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds that are scrubbed clean of the aftereffects of things like discrimination, segregation, slavery and immigrant issues. Now all you have to do is find a way to do all of that.
Number 1 is blatantly false. The public transit system and close proximity of the schools in urban areas completely destroy that theory. The second point isn't wrong and is a major problem, but throwing money at that isn't going to solve anything. The third point applies to a few schools, but it isn't an overarching problem. The city has done a fantastic job with the safe walk program.

This isn't an enigma. They've done different things, including this AUSL management and an increase in magnet schools, that have seen much success.
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CatoMinor
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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2014, 11:14:37 AM »

Perhaps Chicago (and other major cities) needs a "War on Educators". The teacher unions couldn't care less about the children.
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Knives
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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2014, 11:34:50 AM »

Perhaps Chicago (and other major cities) needs a "War on Educators". The teacher unions couldn't care less about the children.


It's a union for teachers not students.
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2014, 12:18:58 PM »

There's some constitutional issues here. Attending a public school is a right. If a public school is privatized, it's no longer public.
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MurrayBannerman
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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2014, 12:19:35 PM »

There's some constitutional issues here. Attending a public school is a right. If a public school is privatized, it's no longer public.
Good thing it wasn't here.
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2014, 12:21:59 PM »

There's some constitutional issues here. Attending a public school is a right. If a public school is privatized, it's no longer public.
Good thing it wasn't here.

Sounds to me like it was.
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MurrayBannerman
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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2014, 12:23:57 PM »

There's some constitutional issues here. Attending a public school is a right. If a public school is privatized, it's no longer public.
Good thing it wasn't here.

Sounds to me like it was.
Well, then, you'd be wrong.
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2014, 12:37:54 PM »

I don't know about today, but I do know that in the '80s, Chicago had a much better school system than we had around here. By far.

I know it might be different now, but not in my day.
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MurrayBannerman
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« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2014, 01:26:37 PM »

I don't think you realize how bad Chicago public schools are.

We realize that, but we fail to see how giving them to a for-profit corporation will improve them.
They're turning over management of the schools, not selling them like the toll road.

I was never convinced than better leadership would improve schools.
Well, when these schools have dumb problems, like bad attendance when they don't make it compulsory, I'm more convinced that it will.

Students in those schools likely aren't showing up because...
- they have no way of getting there
- their parents don't care whether they go or not
- they're scared to (because of gang violence or drugs or what have you)

If you want to fix Chicago's public schools, the trick is to make the students all upper-middle-class, give them well-educated, employed parents, and ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds that are scrubbed clean of the aftereffects of things like discrimination, segregation, slavery and immigrant issues. Now all you have to do is find a way to do all of that.
Number 1 is blatantly false. The public transit system and close proximity of the schools in urban areas completely destroy that theory. The second point isn't wrong and is a major problem, but throwing money at that isn't going to solve anything. The third point applies to a few schools, but it isn't an overarching problem. The city has done a fantastic job with the safe walk program.

This isn't an enigma. They've done different things, including this AUSL management and an increase in magnet schools, that have seen much success.
I don't think you realize how bad the gang violence is in Chicago.
''
I live in the Chicagoland area and spend some of my time in those gang areas when I'm home. I don't just watch Chicagoland on CNN.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2014, 07:17:25 PM »

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Maxwell
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« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2014, 08:33:35 PM »

God bless Murraybannerman for keeping this conversation honest.

And we need more wars like this.
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