Kerry: Israel could become "apartheid" state, needs new leadership

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Haven't people been saying stuff like this for about 40 odd years now (of course, the 'Israeli apartheid' meme is a more recent innovation, as real apartheid no longer exists to showcase how frankly absurd such comparisons are), and yet, somehow, the dystopia never comes.

It hasn't been happening all at once, but as more of a slow boil like the proverbial frog in the pot.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Does Kerry think saying this will help him make headway with Israel?   Or did he just forget someone might be reporting/recording what he was saying?

What makes you think he could make headway?  A lasting and just peace in the area is only possible if all sides are looking for one, and there doesn't appear to be anyone in the area who is actually looking.  Even those who have been looking have largely given up on the possibility.

Kerry seems to think making headway is a real possibility given the focus he's put on the issue lately - unless he has just changed his mind.

He almost certainly thinks there is a political advantage in being seen to be trying to do something.  That alone would be sufficient motivation to make an effort regardless of whether he thought he had any chance of success.

Political advantage for whom?   I don't think Kerry is so cynically self-interested.  Is he hubristic enough to believe he is the long-hoped-for answer to middle east tensions?  Quite possibly.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Does Kerry think saying this will help him make headway with Israel?   Or did he just forget someone might be reporting/recording what he was saying?

What makes you think he could make headway?  A lasting and just peace in the area is only possible if all sides are looking for one, and there doesn't appear to be anyone in the area who is actually looking.  Even those who have been looking have largely given up on the possibility.

Kerry seems to think making headway is a real possibility given the focus he's put on the issue lately - unless he has just changed his mind.

He almost certainly thinks there is a political advantage in being seen to be trying to do something.  That alone would be sufficient motivation to make an effort regardless of whether he thought he had any chance of success.

Political advantage for whom?   I don't think Kerry is so cynically self-interested.  Is he hubristic enough to believe he is the long-hoped-for answer to middle east tensions?  Quite possibly.

He himself, his party, and his country all benefit politically from pretending that a solution is possible.  Besides the usual reasons, it also plays into what is currently going on with Syria and Iran right now.  While that doesn't negate the possibility of hubris, it doesn't require it either.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Israel should not even exist in the first place. Britain should have given the country over to the Palestinians, not the Zionists.

It's almost as if something happened in Europe that made a Jewish homeland necessary.

[Frodo]

Perhaps it's time to give up on the two-state solution (as even Kerry seems to have done), and consider an alternative. 

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Perhaps it's time to give up on the two-state solution (as even Kerry seems to have done), and consider an alternative. 

There's still some massive stumbling blocks with this, including the right of return debate and the state of Gaza, which is pretty much non-integratable.

I do agree that integrating the West Bank into Israel proper with full rights for the Palestinians living there is preferable to anything else, though.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Israel will not ever under any circumstances give up military control of the West Bank.   Pretending like a two state solution has been at all obtainable the past decade has been nothing but an embarrassment to the Washington political establishment and they are understandably butthurt over this.

Time for both America and Israel to come clean and admit this is all just a sad act of going through the motions to show the world “they are doing something” about Palestine, while in the case of Israel, expanding settlements populated by radical fundamentalists to ensure no ground will ever be ceded. 

What's happened in the West Bank for decades is simply ethnic cleansing in slow-motion.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Israel will not ever under any circumstances give up military control of the West Bank.   Pretending like a two state solution has been at all obtainable the past decade has been nothing but an embarrassment to the Washington political establishment and they are understandably butthurt over this.

Time for both America and Israel to come clean and admit this is all just a sad act of going through the motions to show the world “they are doing something” about Palestine, while in the case of Israel, expanding settlements populated by radical fundamentalists to ensure no ground will ever be ceded. 

What's happened in the West Bank for decades is simply ethnic cleansing in slow-motion.

Except that the Palestinian population is increasing, not decreasing. Hence the demographic crisis Israel is facing, and the need to figure out how to resolve it, either with integration or with separation.

[Cory]

Point of Order: Kerry never actually described Israel as an "apartheid state" in being. He was talking about possible outcomes for Israel if no deal can be made.

A two-state solution will be clearly underscored as the only real alternative. Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second-class citizens — or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state.

[Hnv1]

Legally speaking most parts of the West Bank are indeed under apartheid considering two different sets of law apply to two different ethnic groups.
In the State of Israel proper I wouldn't say we're there yet but it is down the road if we continue the stagnation and keep drifting more nationalistic.

Regarding John Kerry - his management of the talks was nothing short of catastrophic and ill-planned, the US cannot play the role of a fair mediator here.

[Hnv1]

Israel should not even exist in the first place. Britain should have given the country over to the Palestinians, not the Zionists.

This may be but they did, and now there are millions of Israelis living here with a crafted national identity. Solving a wrong with a wrong is not the answer, finding a solution for common life is. That's what annoys me about the European left, we share a lot of our beliefs but they cannot look past the historic wrong and rights to the present desired solutions.

[Hnv1]

Perhaps it's time to give up on the two-state solution (as even Kerry seems to have done), and consider an alternative.  

I would be inclined on paper to support this, but and this is a big but, whoever drafted this ignored the fact that the two groups will not be able to live together under one political structure in the near future. Instead of a Levant utopia will receive a Bosnian dystopia, and no mass bloodshed is worth historic right-doing or geo-strategic crackpot solutions. The Israelis and the Palestinians have both a national identity they will not be willing to give up on and I personally wouldn't mind this co-existence but I think the right to self definition of both sides is not something to be looked away from easily.

I support a two-state solution (maybe a confederation of sorts) that acknowledge the fact that somewhere down the road we'll immerse to one

Edit: oh good this is not a real one state solution site it's a radical right site for one Israeli state and disenfranchised Palestinian. Thanks but no thanks they can take their fascist crap and go back to Brooklyn.

[Zioneer]

I don't honestly know enough about the Israel/Palestine issue to comment much, but from what I have read, Kerry seems to be correct. Israel isn't quite at apartheid levels yet (in Israel proper, at least), but it could very well be in a short amount of time.

I'm not sure what the solution is.