NE3: Scott Doctrine Repeal (Law)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 05:39:10 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Government
  Regional Governments (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  NE3: Scott Doctrine Repeal (Law)
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2
Author Topic: NE3: Scott Doctrine Repeal (Law)  (Read 1181 times)
Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,637
Croatia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: May 04, 2014, 04:25:40 PM »
« edited: May 16, 2014, 10:49:29 PM by Speaker Deus »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sponsor: Representative Deus

Debate on this bill will last for 72 hours, or until Wednesday May 7 at 5:30 PM, unless modified or extended. The sponsor has 36 hours to advocate for this proposed legislation. If he does not, this bill will be tabled as there is other pending legislation in the queue.
Logged
Napoleon
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,892


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2014, 04:29:57 PM »

Absolutely not, motion to table, etc.
Logged
Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,637
Croatia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2014, 04:35:56 PM »

Absolutely not, motion to table, etc.
Only the Speaker or the sponsor may table proposed legislation.
Logged
Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,637
Croatia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2014, 04:46:07 PM »

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Scott Doctrine of 2011 was a short-sighted, extremist piece of legislation that prohibited secession in all cases and contained language that would allow the Regional government to engage in mass murder or biological warfare to prevent secession. This is a common sense bill that would allow the Regional government to take a rational, pragmatic approach to difficult situations, and would allow the People of the Northeast to make the decision if the Assembly could not come to a consensus.
Logged
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,174
Norway


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.48

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2014, 05:01:13 PM »

I urge the Assembly to kill this measure.
Logged
Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,637
Croatia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2014, 05:06:37 PM »

I urge the Assembly to kill this measure.
Why? Killing this bill would mean allowing the Regional government to kill Northeast citizens...
Logged
bore
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,274
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2014, 06:05:23 PM »

If the government is bad enough to justify secession it's bad enough that it won't be constrained by any legislation hindering it.
Logged
Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,637
Croatia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2014, 07:09:54 PM »

If the government is bad enough to justify secession it's bad enough that it won't be constrained by any legislation hindering it.
Who does this refer to?
Logged
Napoleon
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,892


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2014, 07:15:35 PM »

If the government is bad enough to justify secession it's bad enough that it won't be constrained by any legislation hindering it.
Who does this refer to?
The government
Logged
Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,637
Croatia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2014, 07:28:55 PM »

If the government is bad enough to justify secession it's bad enough that it won't be constrained by any legislation hindering it.
Who does this refer to?
The government
Which government?
Logged
Napoleon
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,892


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2014, 08:03:03 PM »

If the government is bad enough to justify secession it's bad enough that it won't be constrained by any legislation hindering it.
Who does this refer to?
The government
Which government?
Any government.
Logged
Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,637
Croatia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2014, 08:09:25 PM »

If the government is bad enough to justify secession it's bad enough that it won't be constrained by any legislation hindering it.
Who does this refer to?
The government
Which government?
Any government.
In a secession scenario like the one the Scott Doctrine and my bill address, there are three governments involved: State, Regional, and Federal. I want to know which one Bore was referring to so I can properly address his point.
Logged
bore
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,274
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2014, 04:57:40 AM »

Either federal or regional, in other words the government that is being seceded from.
Logged
Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,637
Croatia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2014, 03:52:01 PM »

Either federal or regional, in other words the government that is being seceded from.
This bill (as well as he one it repeals) addresses a scenario in which a State government has attempted to secede form the Federal government. Under the Scott Doctrine, the Regional government would be forced to side against the State regardless of the circumstance. My bill would allow the Assembly to take a rational look at the situation and come to a decision based on that, rather than simply be forced to resort to violence as our only option.
Logged
sentinel
sirnick
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,733
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.94, S: -6.61

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2014, 06:20:09 PM »

lol
Logged
Cincinnatus
JBach717
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,092
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2014, 06:20:24 PM »

A state can't secede from the region based on the Federal Constitution, which the Northeast is required to adhere to.  Not sure how you could argue we have a choice here.  Honestly, I don't know why we have the Scott doctrine, or why we need a Deus doctrine.  This is really a non-issue, speaking regionally.   
Logged
SWE
SomebodyWhoExists
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,233
United States


P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2014, 06:29:48 PM »

No
Logged
Dr. Cynic
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,417
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.11, S: -6.09

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2014, 10:39:31 PM »

I am strongly against this. Any attempt by any state to secede from the region should be met with swift action against it.
Logged
Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,637
Croatia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2014, 04:09:12 PM »

A state can't secede from the region based on the Federal Constitution, which the Northeast is required to adhere to.  Not sure how you could argue we have a choice here.  Honestly, I don't know why we have the Scott doctrine, or why we need a Deus doctrine.  This is really a non-issue, speaking regionally.   
Link to relevant text?
Logged
Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,637
Croatia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2014, 04:11:25 PM »

Why not?
Logged
Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,637
Croatia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2014, 04:14:03 PM »

I am strongly against this. Any attempt by any state to secede from the region should be met with swift action against it.
This bill has nothing to do with secession from the Northeast. This bill (as well the one it repeals) regards a situation in which a State attempts to secede from the Federal government. I can understand not wanting to have a legal avenue through which the Northeast itself should secede and I would be willing to get rid of that part via amendment but there are way too many possible exceptions for us to be obligated to prevent secession by "any means necessary."
Logged
bore
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,274
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2014, 04:52:57 PM »

Either federal or regional, in other words the government that is being seceded from.
This bill (as well as he one it repeals) addresses a scenario in which a State government has attempted to secede form the Federal government. Under the Scott Doctrine, the Regional government would be forced to side against the State regardless of the circumstance. My bill would allow the Assembly to take a rational look at the situation and come to a decision based on that, rather than simply be forced to resort to violence as our only option.

Right, but if the federal government is so bad that states are seceding from it, if the regional government still exists, it's not going to have a choice about which side to back. At best this bill is pointless, at worst unconstitutional.
Logged
Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,637
Croatia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2014, 05:29:38 PM »

Either federal or regional, in other words the government that is being seceded from.
This bill (as well as he one it repeals) addresses a scenario in which a State government has attempted to secede form the Federal government. Under the Scott Doctrine, the Regional government would be forced to side against the State regardless of the circumstance. My bill would allow the Assembly to take a rational look at the situation and come to a decision based on that, rather than simply be forced to resort to violence as our only option.

Right, but if the federal government is so bad that states are seceding from it, if the regional government still exists, it's not going to have a choice about which side to back. At best this bill is pointless, at worst unconstitutional.
Not necessarily. The first possibility that comes to mind would be a situation in which the Governor is on the side of the Federal government but a majority of Representatives are not. If this bill fails, the Governor would have legal authority to send troops to the seceding State with no legislative review. If my bill were to pass, the Assembly would have to debate the issue and come to a decision, and could file a lawsuit against the Governor if he/she attempted to use force against the seceding State.
Logged
bore
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,274
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2014, 05:45:44 PM »

Either federal or regional, in other words the government that is being seceded from.
This bill (as well as he one it repeals) addresses a scenario in which a State government has attempted to secede form the Federal government. Under the Scott Doctrine, the Regional government would be forced to side against the State regardless of the circumstance. My bill would allow the Assembly to take a rational look at the situation and come to a decision based on that, rather than simply be forced to resort to violence as our only option.

Right, but if the federal government is so bad that states are seceding from it, if the regional government still exists, it's not going to have a choice about which side to back. At best this bill is pointless, at worst unconstitutional.
Not necessarily. The first possibility that comes to mind would be a situation in which the Governor is on the side of the Federal government but a majority of Representatives are not. If this bill fails, the Governor would have legal authority to send troops to the seceding State with no legislative review. If my bill were to pass, the Assembly would have to debate the issue and come to a decision, and could file a lawsuit against the Governor if he/she attempted to use force against the seceding State.


I don't think I'm making myself clear enough. The point is, in a situation where states are seceding the normal rules of government aren't going to apply. It's like that midwest aliens bill a while back. Sure it might be nice to have a procedure like this on paper, but were this event actually to happen, there is no way the procedure would be followed. If the federal government are so bad that a state wants out of the union, they are not going to respect the assembly's dictats.
Logged
Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,637
Croatia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2014, 06:00:47 PM »

Either federal or regional, in other words the government that is being seceded from.
This bill (as well as he one it repeals) addresses a scenario in which a State government has attempted to secede form the Federal government. Under the Scott Doctrine, the Regional government would be forced to side against the State regardless of the circumstance. My bill would allow the Assembly to take a rational look at the situation and come to a decision based on that, rather than simply be forced to resort to violence as our only option.

Right, but if the federal government is so bad that states are seceding from it, if the regional government still exists, it's not going to have a choice about which side to back. At best this bill is pointless, at worst unconstitutional.
Not necessarily. The first possibility that comes to mind would be a situation in which the Governor is on the side of the Federal government but a majority of Representatives are not. If this bill fails, the Governor would have legal authority to send troops to the seceding State with no legislative review. If my bill were to pass, the Assembly would have to debate the issue and come to a decision, and could file a lawsuit against the Governor if he/she attempted to use force against the seceding State.


I don't think I'm making myself clear enough. The point is, in a situation where states are seceding the normal rules of government aren't going to apply. It's like that midwest aliens bill a while back. Sure it might be nice to have a procedure like this on paper, but were this event actually to happen, there is no way the procedure would be followed. If the federal government are so bad that a state wants out of the union, they are not going to respect the assembly's dictats.
I realize that, but I don't see what that has to with this bill. This bill is less about trying to stop the Federal government and more about just not using Regional forces against a State that is attempting to secede from a tyrannical Federal government.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.049 seconds with 12 queries.