The decline of fraternities in the US

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

This is actually an interesting topic worth discussing, especially for the reasons.

Greek membership has been declining for decades and is now in the single digits. And as posted elsewhere that's in some places the low single digits:

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What's causing this and will the trend continue?

[DC Al Fine]

What's causing this and will the trend continue?

The impression I get is that Greeks are overwhelmingly from the "traditional" university types which aren't where most of the growth in students is coming from I think. Throw in some bad press and a less idealistic view of what college is about and I can see why their membership would decline.

[Indy Texas]

Can we please have a moratorium on posting fraternity-related threads?

This is getting ridiculous. At this point we all know how everyone here feels about them and the childish back-and-forth of "You're a racist/elitist who pays for friends" "You're just pissed you didn't get a bid, bro" needs to stop.

[TJ in Oregon]

When I was in undergrad we always made fun of frats for having to pay for friends

Perhaps students are finding more fulfilling organizations to be a part of for free. Or perhaps students are just increasingly eschewing being a part of anything. We do live in an age of unprecedented isolation.

[KingSweden]

Fraternities are cyclical, they almost shut them down at my alma mater in the early 1990s before they limped back by the time I was in college. I think universities have become stricter about fraternity behavior in recent years too and have probably started being braver about shutting trouble houses down (anecdotal). Also, what someone else said about finding other interests to pursue and the decline of "traditional" university attendees. International students don't typically rush, in my experience.

[badgate]

Fraternities are cyclical, they almost shut them down at my alma mater in the early 1990s before they limped back by the time I was in college. I think universities have become stricter about fraternity behavior in recent years too and have probably started being braver about shutting trouble houses down (anecdotal). Also, what someone else said about finding other interests to pursue and the decline of "traditional" university attendees. International students don't typically rush, in my experience.

I think you mean increase in "nontraditional" university attendees.

[Kushahontas]

well who goes to MNSU(M?) to rush? at TCU that number is around 50% of all undergrads.

[MurrayBannerman]

Here, we've had a decline in fraternities because the good houses are getting cracked down on. That said, sororities are as strong as ever here.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

I joined a fraternity as a way of getting involved easily while attending a 90% commuter campus.  I had many, many friends before I joined, too.  It's not always about the worst of the stereotype, and honestly, even some aspects stereotype don't always have to be bad.  On many campuses, you are confronted with hundreds of people who literally don't know anyone else.  Sometimes, a group of 18-24 year old dudes just want to find another large group of 18-24 year old dudes who bring girls around and prioritize partying more than the average person.  Guess what?  Frats do that whether you like it or not.  Do I like EVERYBODY in my fraternity?  No!  Of course not.  Did I make several lifelong friends?  Hell yea, and I've had times with them that I'll never forget.  And the culture of "degrading" women hardly ever went beyond offensive jokes behind closed doors, and we always treated the ladies we had over with respect.  The only time **** got weird was between bros and the girls they were dating.   

[Kevin]

I joined a fraternity as a way of getting involved easily while attending a 90% commuter campus.  I had many, many friends before I joined, too.  It's not always about the worst of the stereotype, and honestly, even some aspects stereotype don't always have to be bad.  On many campuses, you are confronted with hundreds of people who literally don't know anyone else.  Sometimes, a group of 18-24 year old dudes just want to find another large group of 18-24 year old dudes who bring girls around and prioritize partying more than the average person.  Guess what?  Frats do that whether you like it or not.  Do I like EVERYBODY in my fraternity?  No!  Of course not.  Did I make several lifelong friends?  Hell yea, and I've had times with them that I'll never forget.  And the culture of "degrading" women hardly ever went beyond offensive jokes behind closed doors, and we always treated the ladies we had over with respect.  The only time **** got weird was between bros and the girls they were dating.   

[AggregateDemand]

The decline could be economic. Fewer jobs for young people. Rising tuition. Who can drop $1500 on dues and events every semester?

[Kevin]

The decline could be economic. Fewer jobs for young people. Rising tuition. Who can drop $1500 on dues and events every semester?

$1000+ dues are the exception and not the rule for most fraternity chapters a whole.

You are pretty much only going to find such chapter costs at Ivy League schools or highly ranked public universities like UVA, Penn State, UMD, etc. And in many cases that includes room and board as well as the "due" payment

My dues are around $500-600 a semester(depending on how many members we have) and that goes to anything but booze, debauchery, and other stereotypical activities.
 

[Simfan34]

Greek life participation has apparently trebled at my school, a graph showed. It now has about 20% of students, as a result of the soaring costs of doing anything here, a crackdown on drinking, and hostile policies against dorm parties.

[Kevin]

Greek life participation has apparently trebled at my school, a graph showed. It now has about 20% of students, as a result of the soaring costs of doing anything here, a crackdown on drinking, and hostile policies against dorm parties.

It's been gradually increasing at my school. Sororities even more so.

All in the spite of my college having the same repressive policies as yours.

[MaxQue]

From experience, those "regressive" policies might be the cause from growth in fraternities, through. When a school is repressive, more side organisations are appearing. At lax schools, organisations are quite weak and events are usually managed by official organisations, administration or self-organised, by two or three persons, without any organisation.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

One policy at my alma matter that might hurt frats greatly (it was actually implemented my freshman year, so I was in the first group affected by it) is that Greek membership is not permitted unless a student has finished at least one semester. This might not seem like a big deal since it only affects freshmen their first semester, but it also means that new freshmen will already have friends outside the Greek system and be somewhat established by the time they're eligible, and thus motivation and interest in joining a frat will greatly diminish.

My dues are around $500-600 a semester(depending on how many members we have) and that goes to anything but booze, debauchery, and other stereotypical activities.

That was more than a month's rent when I was in college. Still expensive and spent on better things (granted to college me better things meant strippers and lots of alcohol, but regardless...)

[MurrayBannerman]

One policy at my alma matter that might hurt frats greatly (it was actually implemented my freshman year, so I was in the first group affected by it) is that Greek membership is not permitted unless a student has finished at least one semester. This might not seem like a big deal since it only affects freshmen their first semester, but it also means that new freshmen will already have friends outside the Greek system and be somewhat established by the time they're eligible, and thus motivation and interest in joining a frat will greatly diminish.

My dues are around $500-600 a semester(depending on how many members we have) and that goes to anything but booze, debauchery, and other stereotypical activities.

That was more than a month's rent when I was in college. Still expensive and spent on better things (granted to college me better things meant strippers and lots of alcohol, but regardless...)

What do you think dues pay for?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

One policy at my alma matter that might hurt frats greatly (it was actually implemented my freshman year, so I was in the first group affected by it) is that Greek membership is not permitted unless a student has finished at least one semester. This might not seem like a big deal since it only affects freshmen their first semester, but it also means that new freshmen will already have friends outside the Greek system and be somewhat established by the time they're eligible, and thus motivation and interest in joining a frat will greatly diminish.

My dues are around $500-600 a semester(depending on how many members we have) and that goes to anything but booze, debauchery, and other stereotypical activities.

That was more than a month's rent when I was in college. Still expensive and spent on better things (granted to college me better things meant strippers and lots of alcohol, but regardless...)

What do you think dues pay for?

That plus overhead costs. I come out better just spending that money myself.

[The Free North]

One policy at my alma matter that might hurt frats greatly (it was actually implemented my freshman year, so I was in the first group affected by it) is that Greek membership is not permitted unless a student has finished at least one semester. This might not seem like a big deal since it only affects freshmen their first semester, but it also means that new freshmen will already have friends outside the Greek system and be somewhat established by the time they're eligible, and thus motivation and interest in joining a frat will greatly diminish.

My dues are around $500-600 a semester(depending on how many members we have) and that goes to anything but booze, debauchery, and other stereotypical activities.

That was more than a month's rent when I was in college. Still expensive and spent on better things (granted to college me better things meant strippers and lots of alcohol, but regardless...)

What do you think dues pay for?

That plus overhead costs. I come out better just spending that money myself.

Thats just your opinion though. Some people would rather see it spent towards social events, etc.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

One policy at my alma matter that might hurt frats greatly (it was actually implemented my freshman year, so I was in the first group affected by it) is that Greek membership is not permitted unless a student has finished at least one semester. This might not seem like a big deal since it only affects freshmen their first semester, but it also means that new freshmen will already have friends outside the Greek system and be somewhat established by the time they're eligible, and thus motivation and interest in joining a frat will greatly diminish.

My dues are around $500-600 a semester(depending on how many members we have) and that goes to anything but booze, debauchery, and other stereotypical activities.

That was more than a month's rent when I was in college. Still expensive and spent on better things (granted to college me better things meant strippers and lots of alcohol, but regardless...)

What do you think dues pay for?

That plus overhead costs. I come out better just spending that money myself.

Thats just your opinion though. Some people would rather see it spent towards social events, etc.

You don't need frats for keg parties. As mentioned above the frat membership rate at my uni was minuscule but there was parties and drunk college kids everywhere.

[Indy Texas]

I joined a fraternity as a way of getting involved easily while attending a 90% commuter campus.  I had many, many friends before I joined, too.  It's not always about the worst of the stereotype, and honestly, even some aspects stereotype don't always have to be bad.  On many campuses, you are confronted with hundreds of people who literally don't know anyone else.  Sometimes, a group of 18-24 year old dudes just want to find another large group of 18-24 year old dudes who bring girls around and prioritize partying more than the average person.  Guess what?  Frats do that whether you like it or not.  Do I like EVERYBODY in my fraternity?  No!  Of course not.  Did I make several lifelong friends?  Hell yea, and I've had times with them that I'll never forget.  And the culture of "degrading" women hardly ever went beyond offensive jokes behind closed doors, and we always treated the ladies we had over with respect.  The only time **** got weird was between bros and the girls they were dating.   

I can sympathize with that motivation. I think one of the biggest frustrations I had with college and in general was my inability to form any really lasting friendships. Involved as I tried to be on campus, those relationships never went any deeper than weekly meetings. And now I'm in that post-college phase of life where people would rather do their best to keep the friends they have than make new ones (and who had the time, anyway?) Last Friday was my 26th birthday and what did I do? Sit at home alone with a bottle of Pinot Grigio. I don't know how much of that is my fault or if there are things I could have done differently, but all I can really say is that there is a big gap in my life where something is missing.

[Simfan34]

I find this thread comic, but it is only slightly so. It is the usual thing- BRTD making broad, universal conclusions based off of his own experience, here one data point, a decade-old one at that.

As for dues I've heard anywhere between $1-2k per semester. The group I've called "our Bullingdon", with a turn of the century house facing the river, is reputed to charge $5k a semester, sans rent. I'm told they've gradually been taken over by foreigners (no Arabs or Asians need apply) however, keeping on Americans as tokens only. I was speaking from a friend from Maine just the other day, from a very proper (if Catholic- not that it matters for foreigners) background, who got the impression he was being invited to join for that purpose, and turned it down.

And there are a few groups without houses. I'm not entirely sure how that works, I was invited by a friend to one's formal, which was a bit of a bust with a cash bar, we left at 10:30 to do work. So I don't think it works particularly well.

[Simfan34]

I have spoken with a few people involved with our organisation, however, and suggested that we recruit more PLU into the group- more literary club members, more fraternity and sorority members, more private school graduates, more squash and crew team members, and correspondingly, less Southern evangelical types. Or whatnot. I wasn't entirely serious. But they agreed all the same. Most of this group- no more than five- seem to be Catholics, however, myself included, so who knows how far we will get.

[bedstuy]

I wonder if the long term reason might be the end of gender segregated colleges and the increasing class diversity on campuses.

My college had no frats or sororities, so I'm no expert.  But, it seems dumb to create a friend group that's entirely men or women.  Women are really healthy for any group because they moderate the tendency of men to be loud and obnoxious.  It also seems dumb to have a social group that has a president and a treasurer and greek letters and all that jazz.  I've also seen greek life on other campuses that was very snobby, exclusive and hyper-masculine in way that feels icky and not fun.

But, having had a really tight knit group of friends at college myself, I see the value of social clubs.  My compromise would be that we should have residential campus groups, but they should be co-ed, egalitarian and supportive/inclusive of non-sportsy agro bro d-bag types.

[Simfan34]

The organic nature of your proposal could be rather unpleasant for more socially awkward types. From what I am told the structure of fraternities, forming almost immediately upon matriculation, has saved a lot of people from social misery.

Princeton's eating clubs are somewhat like your proposal and they have corresponding downsides, namely, a succession of people in the same extended circle, leaving those without such circles in the cold.