Poor Little White Boy Fights The Power

[bedstuy]

It's funny how the anti-racists are in favor of the n-word and treating people different on account of their race.

[Person Man]

rich white boy doesn't have a clue. Complains about not having a clue.

[Oakvale]

Haha this thread is the whitest thing in the universe.

Simfan's posts are pretty gross (sorry Simfan, you know I love you but...) - if he doesn't snap out of the black Republican thing he'll end up being trotted out to support barely-concealed racist remarks about DEGENERATE INNER CITY CULTURE on FOX News every night. Look! We're not racist, this guy agrees!

It's funny how the anti-racists are in favor of the n-word and treating people different on account of their race.

Really? You don't see how Snowguy calling Simfan a 'house n' is slightly different to the countless classic hip hop tunes using the casual "nigga"? Only white people think that that makes any sense.

Gay people should stop calling themselves queer because if I call a guy in the street a queer people will think I'm a homophobe. I'm being oppressed!

[Lief 🗽]

It's funny how the anti-racists are in favor of the n-word and treating people different on account of their race.

Anti-racists are doing neither.

As to Simfan's thing, some people believe that the position of black people in this country is because they listen to rap music, call each other a word, and wear baggy pants. Other people believe it's because of centuries of oppression that persists in structural and systemic inequality. One of these views is just the latest in a long line of rich people attacking poor people for living in poverty, essentially victim-blaming; the other is actually supported by historical and contemporary evidence.

edit: It's just insane to me, that anyone could look at the history of this country, of centuries of slavery (which is literally one of the worst things mankind has ever done); the wholesale destruction of culture and familial structures that went along with; hundreds of years of systemic social and cultural degradation of a people, which continues to this day with enduring stereotypes and media portrayals; countless and routine incidents of organized and state-sanctioned violence and terror; years of segregationist social engineering, that has consigned urban blacks to the worst housing, the worst jobs, the worst schools, the worst infrastructure, the worst police presence, etc., etc. that still exists today; racial beliefs that lead to blacks being incarcerated, denied jobs, denied loans at rates far higher than other ethnicities, even controlling for income, and come to the conclusion that no, the problem must be that they are wearing baggy pants and listening to hip hop and calling each other the n-word. Maybe there are problems with black culture (though there are problems with every culture, and it seems that it's only blacks that we seem to lecture at...), but their effect on black poverty is so infinitesimally small compared to the burden of hundreds of years of history.

[bedstuy]

It's funny how the anti-racists are in favor of the n-word and treating people different on account of their race.

Really? You don't see how Snowguy calling Simfan a 'house n' is slightly different to the countless classic hip hop tunes using the casual "nigga"? Only white people think that that makes any sense.

Gay people should stop calling themselves queer because if I call a guy in the street a queer people will think I'm a homophobe. I'm being oppressed!

A white person using the n-word is worse than a black person using the n-word.  Someone using the n-word to be hateful is worse than using the n-word as conversation filler.  But, that doesn't mean that anyone should use the n-word.

It's funny how the anti-racists are in favor of the n-word and treating people different on account of their race.

Anti-racists are doing neither.

As to Simfan's thing, some people believe that the position of black people in this country is because they listen to rap music, call each other a word, and wear baggy pants. Other people believe it's because of centuries of oppression that persists in structural and systemic inequality. One of these views is just the latest in a long line of rich people attacking poor people for living in poverty, essentially victim-blaming; the other is actually supported by historical and contemporary evidence.

I don't see why we need to have two opposing viewpoints on this.  If you look at black poverty, you have these structural factors like drug laws which have decimated black men.  That should change.  But, that doesn't mean that the black community has no agency in dealing with social problems and poverty.  You have this kind of mental enslavement that Simfan talked about which really hurts black people.  People need to be honest about taking that on if you're going to take on the cycle of poverty that afflicts a lot of black people.

I know there are racists like Bill O'Reilly who want to use black's real problems to bolster their racist views.  That's why this is all touchy.  But, that doesn't mean we need to get into this tribalist game where black people are either entirely powerless victims or racist stereotypes.

[Lief 🗽]

Anyway, people should as always read Ta-Nehisi Coates, who says this stuff more eloquently than anyone can.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/05/how-the-obama-administration-talks-to-black-america/276015/

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/03/other-peoples-pathologies/359841/

[Simfan34]

The problem is not about baggy pants. The problem is about a self-defeating culture that denigrates success through hard work as "white", demeans education, shouts "f[inks] the police", suffers from broken families, etc.  No sane person would deny that racial oppression is what caused this problem, absolutely. But that doesn't mean racial oppression is what is perpetuating it.

Please, guys, read the book.

[Torie]

The problem is not about baggy pants. The problem is about a self-defeating culture that denigrates success through hard work as "white", demeans education, shouts "f[inks] the police", suffers from broken families, etc.  No sane person would deny that racial oppression is what caused this problem, absolutely. But that doesn't mean racial oppression is what is perpetuating it.

Please, guys, read the book.

Some of that is because some folks don't succeed at work, or school, so they put it down as a defense mechanism. Who wants to suck at something that's important to not suck at?  And that gets back to the crappy state of the schools, which gets back to why I am so militant on that issue - having poor schools in poor neighborhoods, with no alternatives offered, is the single most evil thing this nation does at the moment.

[bedstuy]

The problem is not about baggy pants. The problem is about a self-defeating culture that denigrates success through hard work as "white", demeans education, shouts "f[inks] the police", suffers from broken families, etc.  No sane person would deny that racial oppression is what caused this problem, absolutely. But that doesn't mean racial oppression is what is perpetuating it.

Please, guys, read the book.

Right.  Nobody is disagreeing about the history.

I think what you and I are saying is that framing black people as defined totally by racism and victimhood in 2014 is thoroughly unhelpful.  As there is still a major problem of racism among whites, there is a corresponding problem of self-internalized racism among blacks.  Both groups have the agency to do better, even if blacks are in a historical sense the obvious victim.  It's unfair that our country has brutalized and marginalized blacks for hundreds of years, but focusing on the unfairness is not the pathway to improve today.

[Simfan34]

The problem is not about baggy pants. The problem is about a self-defeating culture that denigrates success through hard work as "white", demeans education, shouts "f[inks] the police", suffers from broken families, etc.  No sane person would deny that racial oppression is what caused this problem, absolutely. But that doesn't mean racial oppression is what is perpetuating it.

Please, guys, read the book.

Right.  Nobody is disagreeing about the history.

I think what you and I are saying is that framing black people as defined totally by racism and victimhood in 2014 is thoroughly unhelpful.  As there is still a major problem of racism among whites, there is a corresponding problem of self-internalized racism among blacks.  Both groups have the agency to do better, even if blacks are in a historical sense the obvious victim.  It's unfair that our country has brutalized and marginalized blacks for hundreds of years, but focusing on the unfairness is not the pathway to improve today.

Precisely. As Malcolm X said, "Whites can help us, but they can’t join us. There can be no black-white unity until there is first some black unity". It is a matter of recognising the issue and possessing the capability to defeat it. Outside can groups can things to help but ultimately the onus is on the affected group- black people.

[Ogre Mage]

Perhaps this young man's views will grow with further education.  That's what happened to Hillary Clinton at Wellesley.  That's the most generous statement I can make about what he wrote.

White privilege manifests itself in ways which are not always obvious to the beneficiaries.  Let me give you one example.  I am a minority.  There have been many times when I came up to a public service counter at the same time or even slightly ahead of a white patron/customer and the white customer got helped first.

Now of course I know what some defensive white people will say -- "That's something which has happened to all of us.  Race probably doesn't have anything to do with it."  But it has happened to me enough times that I would not agree with them.  Most notably, I don't think most of the white customers really noticed they were getting helped in front of me.  On some level I'm not even sure the public service staff doing it were aware of what they were doing.  Racism is not always conscious. 

Black people who have tried to catch a cab probably could tell similar stories.

[PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald]

The truth is that both sides have a point. There is still obviously some minor racism against poor black people on one hand. On the other hand, ghetto culture often gives perverse economic and social incentives to drop out of school and go into the black market so that you may increase the buying power of the criminal elites.

It was through recognizing this that Clinton won and slashed racism in half.

[Simfan34]

Black people who have tried to catch a cab probably could tell similar stories.

I joke about this, but this is an inane thing to actually believe. Living your life this way, thinking every little thing that doesn't go your way is the fault of racism, is not healthy.

[RosettaStoned]

 White people are not inherently "privileged" despite what you silly liberals believe. For example, most people on welfare are white. Are they privileged? I think not.

[Torie]

If someone said "check your privilege" to me, my response would be but one word: no.

[Hamster]

If someone said "check your privilege" to me, my response would be but one word: no.

How bold.