Lumine's Election and Political Tracker (Epilogue) - Tracker Closed

[bore]

Lol

You once again have my full support and endorsement.

REPUBLIC OF ATLASIA - In Dave We Trust
Official Ballot

PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT

[2] DemPGH of Washington and Windjammer of Minnesota
^{Labor Party}

[1] Sirnick of New York and Dallasfan65 of Massachusetts
^{The People's Party - Democratic-Republican Party}

[  ] Write-in:______________________________
^{-__________________}

[  ] None of the above

NORTHEAST SENATOR

[2] Bore of Rhode Island
^{Labor Party}

[1] Deus naturae of New York
^{Democratic-Republican Party}

[  ] Write-in:______________________________
^{-__________________}

[  ] None of the above

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Lol

You once again have my full support and endorsement.

NORTHEAST SENATOR

[2] Bore of Rhode Island
^{Labor Party}

[1] Deus naturae of New York
^{Democratic-Republican Party}

[  ] Write-in:______________________________
^{-__________________}

[  ] None of the above

what else can one expect from a craven opportunist and flip-flopper like sirnick?

[Napoleon]

[Simfan34]

...

[Oakvale]

The sentiments expressed by Zuwo and Clarence reflect to a large extent the sentiment amongst the Federalists who have voted for DemPGH either as one or the other sentiment or a combination of the two. Not having a Federalist in this race combined with the Laborites running DemPGH instead of someone else, meant that a lot of Federalists felt no cause of concern about the White House going to Labor. DemPGH, even when he was just considering running for At-Large Senate in December, was looked upon favorably as a possible candidate for that "Third Non-Federalist At-Large Senator" by the Party, he was a great VP and a fair administrator of the Senate.

I actually agree completely that with - I think DemPGH is going to make a very good President, just as he did a very good Governor. With the way the results are looking I'm disappointed for SirNick, but both choices were very capable in this election.

But the fact is that President DemPGH and, with him, Vice-President Windjammer means total Labor Party control of the government, with the ability to pass their entire platform unhindered. That's what the Federalists who voted for DemPGH voted for. That doesn't particularly bother me, but I'm not a Federalist - it's literally unjustifiable from a "centre-right" or remotely "conservative" perspective, and, as I said earlier, really might mark the end of the Federalists as a party worth taking seriously.

[Napoleon]

The sentiments expressed by Zuwo and Clarence reflect to a large extent the sentiment amongst the Federalists who have voted for DemPGH either as one or the other sentiment or a combination of the two. Not having a Federalist in this race combined with the Laborites running DemPGH instead of someone else, meant that a lot of Federalists felt no cause of concern about the White House going to Labor. DemPGH, even when he was just considering running for At-Large Senate in December, was looked upon favorably as a possible candidate for that "Third Non-Federalist At-Large Senator" by the Party, he was a great VP and a fair administrator of the Senate.

I actually agree completely that with - I think DemPGH is going to make a very good President, just as he did a very good Governor. With the way the results are looking I'm disappointed for SirNick, but both choices were very capable in this election.

But the fact is that President DemPGH and, with him, Vice-President Windjammer means total Labor Party control of the government, with the ability to pass their entire platform unhindered. That's what the Federalists who voted for DemPGH voted for. That doesn't particularly bother me, but I'm not a Federalist - it's literally unjustifiable from a "centre-right" or remotely "conservative" perspective, and, as I said earlier, really might mark the end of the Federalists as a party worth taking seriously.

Why is anyone taking a party that rarely bothers fielding a candidate in national races seriously in the first place?

And I don't recall you sharing these sort of opinions when they supported Snowstalker, a much more left wing character than DemPGH.

[Oakvale]

The sentiments expressed by Zuwo and Clarence reflect to a large extent the sentiment amongst the Federalists who have voted for DemPGH either as one or the other sentiment or a combination of the two. Not having a Federalist in this race combined with the Laborites running DemPGH instead of someone else, meant that a lot of Federalists felt no cause of concern about the White House going to Labor. DemPGH, even when he was just considering running for At-Large Senate in December, was looked upon favorably as a possible candidate for that "Third Non-Federalist At-Large Senator" by the Party, he was a great VP and a fair administrator of the Senate.

I actually agree completely that with - I think DemPGH is going to make a very good President, just as he did a very good Governor. With the way the results are looking I'm disappointed for SirNick, but both choices were very capable in this election.

But the fact is that President DemPGH and, with him, Vice-President Windjammer means total Labor Party control of the government, with the ability to pass their entire platform unhindered. That's what the Federalists who voted for DemPGH voted for. That doesn't particularly bother me, but I'm not a Federalist - it's literally unjustifiable from a "centre-right" or remotely "conservative" perspective, and, as I said earlier, really might mark the end of the Federalists as a party worth taking seriously.

Why is anyone taking a party that rarely bothers fielding a candidate in national races seriously in the first place?

That's a good question, considering they came close to outright endorsing the candidate of their supposed ideological rival anyway.

e: One would imagine that the Federalist second preference vote for Snowstalker was a protest vote - if there'd be any chance that he'd win it would not have materialised.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The far biggest problem for the Federalists is that the activity of last year was built on an activity bubble amongst several members and thus skipping a few races, or running complete novices as the alternative was unavoidable for an election or two.

The root of the problem for the Federalists is that there isn't a candidate who can please both the median voter and their base.

It is a secondary problem. The discontent expressed with votes for people like Tmth illustrate that there are candidates who can bridge the divide, but it is tough and most of those type of candidates are likewise older and often fit into that category I described above.

Duke came closer to achieving this than anyone else ever will, yet his presidency has left the Federalists fractured. He barely mustered enough enthusiasm from them to win renomination against a veritable nutcase, and at least one person left the party in protest.

Duke made a lot of mistakes during his first term. The biggest was not becoming a Federalist and also constantly expressing doubt about his running for a second term. The former meant severe breakdown in communication, and the latter meant that people were beginning to plan "post-Duke" as early as December. Duke often communicates and acts in a matter that works wonderfully as long as all the matters the immediate circle who knows and loves him. The doubt about running again was probably disappointment expressed outwardly, but even I misread it based on sheer number of mentions of the matter in public and private.

He also nearly made the same mistake as Sirnick, leaving himself without a tangible connection to the party on an issue set, just as Matt was transitioning from a Federalist insider to something of a rogue agent.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The sentiments expressed by Zuwo and Clarence reflect to a large extent the sentiment amongst the Federalists who have voted for DemPGH either as one or the other sentiment or a combination of the two. Not having a Federalist in this race combined with the Laborites running DemPGH instead of someone else, meant that a lot of Federalists felt no cause of concern about the White House going to Labor. DemPGH, even when he was just considering running for At-Large Senate in December, was looked upon favorably as a possible candidate for that "Third Non-Federalist At-Large Senator" by the Party, he was a great VP and a fair administrator of the Senate.

I actually agree completely that with - I think DemPGH is going to make a very good President, just as he did a very good Governor. With the way the results are looking I'm disappointed for SirNick, but both choices were very capable in this election.

But the fact is that President DemPGH and, with him, Vice-President Windjammer means total Labor Party control of the government, with the ability to pass their entire platform unhindered. That's what the Federalists who voted for DemPGH voted for. That doesn't particularly bother me, but I'm not a Federalist - it's literally unjustifiable from a "centre-right" or remotely "conservative" perspective, and, as I said earlier, really might mark the end of the Federalists as a party worth taking seriously.

Why is anyone taking a party that rarely bothers fielding a candidate in national races seriously in the first place?

That's a good question, considering they came close to outright endorsing the candidate of their supposed ideological rival anyway.

e: One would imagine that the Federalist second preference vote for Snowstalker was a protest vote - if there'd be any chance that he'd win it would not have materialised.

The Federalists have a long history of falling in love with various candidates from the left, something Nappy should know quite well.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Lol

You once again have my full support and endorsement.

REPUBLIC OF ATLASIA - In Dave We Trust
Official Ballot

PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT

[2] DemPGH of Washington and Windjammer of Minnesota
^{Labor Party}

[1] Sirnick of New York and Dallasfan65 of Massachusetts
^{The People's Party - Democratic-Republican Party}

[  ] Write-in:______________________________
^{-__________________}

[  ] None of the above

NORTHEAST SENATOR

[2] Bore of Rhode Island
^{Labor Party}

[1] Deus naturae of New York
^{Democratic-Republican Party}

[  ] Write-in:______________________________
^{-__________________}

[  ] None of the above

Wow!  I'm normally not one to criticize people for how they vote on Atlasia, but this is just ridiculous.  It is extremely Liebermanesque, for lack of a better word.  I voted for SirNick, but in light of this, I couldn't be happier DemPGH seems poised to win.  I didn't want to believe the folks who were attacking SirNick as an unprincipled flip-flopper, he'd always done right by me and I gave him the benefit of the doubt.  I want to hear SirNick's explanation for this before I assume the worst.  I know firsthand that sometimes what some may see as opportunism or a lack of principle is sometimes the result of good intentions leading to a result that is simply FUBAR.  However, from where I stand this sure doesn't look good, to say the least.  This doesn't change the fact that I consider SirNick a forum friend, but it does make me pretty reluctant to vote for him if he runs for anything in Atlasia in the foreseeable future.

As a liberal who supported SirNick (albeit one who really liked both candidates) because I thought he was the best of two highly qualified candidates, this is very disappointing.  I really thought (and he essentially ran as) that he was a pragmatic center-left candidate who was willing to work with the other side.  Now I really don't know what his views actually are  I have no problem with SirNick voting for Deus in-and-of-itself.  However, for him to vote for Deus while running as a center-left candidate who was a former Laborite himself in a race that is critical to the Senate balance of power (and remember, Bore isn't some hyper-partisan extremist) it simply makes no sense.  Whether you're a Federalist, fellow member of the TPP, a Laborite, a Democratic-Republican, a Cultural Marxist, or an Independent, I'd urge you not to make the mistake I made.  Vote for DemPGH, a write-in, or even abstain, at least that way you know what you're getting.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

(and remember, Bore isn't some hyper-partisan extremist)

especially compared to deus

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The sentiments expressed by Zuwo and Clarence reflect to a large extent the sentiment amongst the Federalists who have voted for DemPGH either as one or the other sentiment or a combination of the two. Not having a Federalist in this race combined with the Laborites running DemPGH instead of someone else, meant that a lot of Federalists felt no cause of concern about the White House going to Labor. DemPGH, even when he was just considering running for At-Large Senate in December, was looked upon favorably as a possible candidate for that "Third Non-Federalist At-Large Senator" by the Party, he was a great VP and a fair administrator of the Senate.

I actually agree completely that with - I think DemPGH is going to make a very good President, just as he did a very good Governor. With the way the results are looking I'm disappointed for SirNick, but both choices were very capable in this election.

But the fact is that President DemPGH and, with him, Vice-President Windjammer means total Labor Party control of the government, with the ability to pass their entire platform unhindered. That's what the Federalists who voted for DemPGH voted for. That doesn't particularly bother me, but I'm not a Federalist - it's literally unjustifiable from a "centre-right" or remotely "conservative" perspective, and, as I said earlier, really might mark the end of the Federalists as a party worth taking seriously.

As surprising as it may seem, as far back as last year, there has been a strong element in the party that hasn't been too concerned about the Senate, something that often made me somewhat of a dissident voice at times within the Party last year.

[Talleyrand]

I still can't fathom why the Federalist Party did not nominate a candidate. There are plenty of credible people in the party; Hagrid, Tmth, Yankee (who actually considered a run), and others who could have held the banner against two left of center candidates.

Nix makes a good point, but I don't believe the issues he pointed out would have played as large a role as he thinks. With Duke's residual popularity and a split in the left, there's no question that they could have made a serious play for the presidency. And even if that hadn't been the case, the party has always nominated respectable candidates to carry the party flag (such as Cathcon in February 2013). I see no reason why this couldn't have been the case this time around.

[Napoleon]

Matt was an awesome veep

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The far biggest problem for the Federalists is that the activity of last year was built on an activity bubble amongst several members and thus skipping a few races, or running complete novices as the alternative was unavoidable for an election or two.

The root of the problem for the Federalists is that there isn't a candidate who can please both the median voter and their base.

It is a secondary problem. The discontent expressed with votes for people like Tmth illustrate that there are candidates who can bridge the divide, but it is tough and most of those type of candidates are likewise older and often fit into that category I described above.

I disagree. Who could pull this off? There isn't anyone who can unite the two, because the demands of the Federalist base are in direct conflict with the expectations of the median voter.

You might think the same thing about Labor, but when you consider the Laborites that we've elected to the presidency (Marokai, myself, and - I hope - DemPGH), it's obvious that we don't work the same way. And if Duke had chosen to run as our candidate in September or even in February, he would have won at least nine out of ten Labor votes.

Duke came closer to achieving this than anyone else ever will, yet his presidency has left the Federalists fractured. He barely mustered enough enthusiasm from them to win renomination against a veritable nutcase, and at least one person left the party in protest.

Duke made a lot of mistakes during his first term. The biggest was not becoming a Federalist and also constantly expressing doubt about his running for a second term. The former meant severe breakdown in communication, and the latter meant that people were beginning to plan "post-Duke" as early as December. Duke often communicates and acts in a matter that works wonderfully as long as all the matters the immediate circle who knows and loves him. The doubt about running again was probably disappointment expressed outwardly, but even I misread it based on sheer number of mentions of the matter in public and private.

He also nearly made the same mistake as Sirnick, leaving himself without a tangible connection to the party on an issue set, just as Matt was transitioning from a Federalist insider to something of a rogue agent.

I don't blame Duke. He has had a successful presidency. It was the Federalists who barely lobbied him at all in his first term and never even attempted to pull together a policy agenda that Duke could assist them with. They always needed him more than he needed them.

Matt was supposed to be the Federalist representative within the administration, but it was clear from early in Duke's first term that he had become not just an unreliable liaison, but a renegade working to undermine the Federalist Party. Yet it took months for the Federalists to stop attempting to work through him.

To your personal credit, you've done a lot to fix all of this over the past couple of months.

Not really, it was more that the Federalists couldn't stop trying to undermine Duke and him.  Is it any wonder he got fed up (sorry ).

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The far biggest problem for the Federalists is that the activity of last year was built on an activity bubble amongst several members and thus skipping a few races, or running complete novices as the alternative was unavoidable for an election or two.

The root of the problem for the Federalists is that there isn't a candidate who can please both the median voter and their base.

It is a secondary problem. The discontent expressed with votes for people like Tmth illustrate that there are candidates who can bridge the divide, but it is tough and most of those type of candidates are likewise older and often fit into that category I described above.

I disagree. Who could pull this off? There isn't anyone who can unite the two, because the demands of the Federalist base are in direct conflict with the expectations of the median voter.

You might think the same thing about Labor, but when you consider the Laborites that we've elected to the presidency (Marokai, myself, and - I hope - DemPGH), it's obvious that we don't work the same way. And if Duke had chosen to run as our candidate in September or even in February, he would have won at least nine out of ten Labor votes.

If Tmth were still active and had gone through with his abortive run, he "could" have pulled it off. There are maybe one or two others who could have as well, but that gets back to my main point before. Even amongst the right or perceived right, running a base candidate runs into the same problem as well. It doesn't really challenge my contention that the primary problem is a that an acitvity bubble burst and we need to cycle in some newer talent.

Duke came closer to achieving this than anyone else ever will, yet his presidency has left the Federalists fractured. He barely mustered enough enthusiasm from them to win renomination against a veritable nutcase, and at least one person left the party in protest.

Duke made a lot of mistakes during his first term. The biggest was not becoming a Federalist and also constantly expressing doubt about his running for a second term. The former meant severe breakdown in communication, and the latter meant that people were beginning to plan "post-Duke" as early as December. Duke often communicates and acts in a matter that works wonderfully as long as all the matters the immediate circle who knows and loves him. The doubt about running again was probably disappointment expressed outwardly, but even I misread it based on sheer number of mentions of the matter in public and private.

He also nearly made the same mistake as Sirnick, leaving himself without a tangible connection to the party on an issue set, just as Matt was transitioning from a Federalist insider to something of a rogue agent.

I don't blame Duke. He has had a successful presidency. It was the Federalists who barely lobbied him at all in his first term and never even attempted to pull together a policy agenda that Duke could assist them with. They always needed him more than he needed them.

Matt was supposed to be the Federalist representative within the administration, but it was clear from early in Duke's first term that he had become not just an unreliable liaison, but a renegade working to undermine the Federalist Party. Yet it took months for the Federalists to stop attempting to work through him.

To your personal credit, you've done a lot to fix all of this over the past couple of months.

I didn't say I blamed Duke either, but it was a mistake to not join the Party and to keep casting doubt about seeking a second term both publically and private. The encoruaged dissension and meant that Federalists were were disatisfied would just wait him out for Maxwell or someone else in February instead of trying to work with him. I would also point out that the Senate had six Labor "elected" Senators and any agenda that would please the right would be DOA until at least January, and by then the February cycle was well under way as well as the "post-Duke" mindset.

I don't blame Matt either, his view were changing and he had a lot of pressure on his activity from real life. I should have sought to discourage the "wait him out approach", but on the flip side I was reluctant to discourage the Party from having other options ready to go with him so likely to retire as it seemed at the time. I was also an IBer and had little direct connection with large Whig Conservative base outisde of the IDS since dissolution and thus I clashed with the Party on many things, over the course of 2013, and felt fortunate that December was so much better thanks largely to Maxwell taking the same approach as mine.

I disagree mainly because losing March and most of April cost precious time and not to mention possibly the two votes that could have made the difference in April. And as much as I try to listen as I pledged to do back in Februaty, I find it worthless if people don't talk about their concerns.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I still can't fathom why the Federalist Party did not nominate a candidate. There are plenty of credible people in the party; Hagrid, Tmth, Yankee (who actually considered a run), and others who could have held the banner against two left of center candidates.

Nix makes a good point, but I don't believe the issues he pointed out would have played as large a role as he thinks. With Duke's residual popularity and a split in the left, there's no question that they could have made a serious play for the presidency. And even if that hadn't been the case, the party has always nominated respectable candidates to carry the party flag (such as Cathcon in February 2013). I see no reason why this couldn't have been the case this time around.

There was no way I could run after what happened in March. I also turned down a VP offer because I didn't want to undercut a potential candidacy that then never materialized and was still not in a position to commit to any kind of run until really the end of May (including even reelection to the Senate).

[Napoleon]

What happened in March?

[Maxwell]

I think my chairmanship did a lot of damage to the Fed party, to be honest. I focused too much on Senate and Presidential races and not enough on building a Federalist base of rising stars who could eventually be Senators or President.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What happened in March?

My mom's fiancee passed away.

[Napoleon]

What happened in March?

My mom's fiancee passed away.

I'm sorry to hear that.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I think my chairmanship did a lot of damage to the Fed party, to be honest. I focused too much on Senate and Presidential races and not enough on building a Federalist base of rising stars who could eventually be Senators or President.

If anyone was qualified to compensate for deficiencies in such areas, it was Tmth and losing him was a big hit to the Party.

[Simfan34]

What ideas have the Federalists come up with? How have they articulated an opposition to Labor that could persuade people in the middle that voting for their opponents would be a bad idea? The party spends far too much time squabbling amongst itself, particularly amongst those who not only think that Atlasia is more-right wing than it actually is, but that the US is more right-wing than it actually is. I mean voters are not terribly removed from the final results... it shouldn't be difficult to get it across that a center-right candidate in office is vastly superior (for them, at least) to a "solid conservative" candidate who loses to a far-leftist.

The fact that the D-Rs serve as a spoiler for the Federalist for "libertarian" types does not help them. There are too many people who seem to not care about election results.

[Napoleon]

Why would an actual libertarian vote for the atlasian right? The things they support economically are either already in place or have no chance of passing. There is a larger portion of voters that are socially authoritarian than there is economically right wing voters.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What ideas have the Federalists come up with? How have they articulated an opposition to Labor that could persuade people in the middle that voting for their opponents would be a bad idea?

What was Sirnick's basis for convincing voters they should vote for him instead of DemPGH?