Pope says everyone has the right to be baptized, even extraterrestrials

[NewYorkExpress]

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/pope-says-baptism-is-for-everyone-even-martians_931728.html

While I'm more interested in the earthly ramifications of the statement, the idea of Martians converting to Catholicism is amusing...

[Small L]

This is nothing new.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

There will be no earthly ramifications because this isn't news.

[Mr. Morden]

There will be no earthly ramifications because this isn't news.

No *earthly* ramifications, no.  But this will be huge news in the rest of the universe.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

There will be no earthly ramifications because this isn't news.

No *earthly* ramifications, no.  But this will be huge news in the rest of the universe.

Actually not even that is without precedent from the Vatican.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It does take a certain amount of hubris to think that if there is intelligent life out there that the sin of man caused it to be in need of saving and that furthermore, that that saving could only be done here on Earth.  I'm reminded of Mark Twain's Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven.

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[Associate Justice PiT]

     That was my thought too, Ernest. What purpose would it serve to baptize aliens, who are potentially not subject to original sin?

[bore]

Been there, done that.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Too bad he keeps discrediting himself by saying stupid things like this.

[Small L]

It does take a certain amount of hubris to think that if there is intelligent life out there that the sin of man caused it to be in need of saving and that furthermore, that that saving could only be done here on Earth.

That's quiet a logical leap from the Pope's statements.

[Mordecai]

Too bad he keeps discrediting himself by saying stupid things like this.

Didn't the Vatican already acknowledge the possible existence of extra-terrestrial life before Pope Francis became Pope? This is really just an extension of that.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It does take a certain amount of hubris to think that if there is intelligent life out there that the sin of man caused it to be in need of saving and that furthermore, that that saving could only be done here on Earth.

That's quiet a logical leap from the Pope's statements.

Not really.  One generally only needs baptism if one has sin, hence the reluctance of John to baptize Jesus. Ergo, that aliens could benefit from baptism implies that they have sin. Traditional Christian doctrine holds that sin comes solely from the fall of man, and hence if extraterrestrials are sinful, it is because of man's weakness.

Yet if one accepts that extraterrestrial races may have sin without it being due to man, to think that a loving God would leave them no way of relieving it until they happened to stumble upon us is rather ridiculous.  Surely God would have provided those other races with a sacrament that performs the function of baptism long before they made contact with us and thus have no need of the human sacrament of baptism.

[Small L]

It does take a certain amount of hubris to think that if there is intelligent life out there that the sin of man caused it to be in need of saving and that furthermore, that that saving could only be done here on Earth.

That's quiet a logical leap from the Pope's statements.

Not really.  One generally only needs baptism if one has sin, hence the reluctance of John to baptize Jesus. Ergo, that aliens could benefit from baptism implies that they have sin. Traditional Christian doctrine holds that sin comes solely from the fall of man, and hence if extraterrestrials are sinful, it is because of man's weakness.

I disagree. If aliens are sinful they likely have their own fall. Satan for instance, had his own fall. His sinfulness is not a result of ours.

Yet if one accepts that extraterrestrial races may have sin without it being due to man, to think that a loving God would leave them no way of relieving it until they happened to stumble upon us is rather ridiculous.  Surely God would have provided those other races with a sacrament that performs the function of baptism long before they made contact with us and thus have no need of the human sacrament of baptism.

The massive amount of people who lived and died without ever hearing of monotheism (much less Jesus himself) are not automatically considered damned in the Catholic perspective, in fact we believe God was at work in their communities as well. But it still would have been have been better if they were baptized. How would aliens be any different?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Yet if one accepts that extraterrestrial races may have sin without it being due to man, to think that a loving God would leave them no way of relieving it until they happened to stumble upon us is rather ridiculous.  Surely God would have provided those other races with a sacrament that performs the function of baptism long before they made contact with us and thus have no need of the human sacrament of baptism.

The massive amount of people who lived and died without ever hearing of monotheism (much less Jesus himself) are not automatically considered damned in the Catholic perspective, in fact we believe God was at work in their communities as well. But it still would have been have been better if they were baptized. How would aliens be any different?

Well, for one thing, they might live underwater or in an environment in which liquid water is unavailable.  In either case, baptism would be impossible.  There's no reason to think terrestrial carbon-based life is the only type that could achieve sentience.

[Mr. Morden]

It does take a certain amount of hubris to think that if there is intelligent life out there that the sin of man caused it to be in need of saving and that furthermore, that that saving could only be done here on Earth.

That's quiet a logical leap from the Pope's statements.

Not really.  One generally only needs baptism if one has sin, hence the reluctance of John to baptize Jesus. Ergo, that aliens could benefit from baptism implies that they have sin. Traditional Christian doctrine holds that sin comes solely from the fall of man, and hence if extraterrestrials are sinful, it is because of man's weakness.

Yet if one accepts that extraterrestrial races may have sin without it being due to man, to think that a loving God would leave them no way of relieving it until they happened to stumble upon us is rather ridiculous.  Surely God would have provided those other races with a sacrament that performs the function of baptism long before they made contact with us and thus have no need of the human sacrament of baptism.

Aliens could have original sin because of their own fall.  They could then have their own baptism ritual, but that wouldn't preclude one of them choosing to get an Earthly baptism instead of it wanted to, would it?  Maybe Francis is proposing a baptism exchange program between planets?

[Simfan34]

Personally I always just assume Jesus went to other planets as well.

[Badger]

A graphic novel that explores the question well, not to mention being a great read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creature_Tech

If you can stand a graphic novel comic (if we adults are being honest with ourselves) where religion isn't, as always, portrayed as the source of all that is backward/reactionary/hypocritical/the bad guy, but doesn't do so in anything approaching an cloying or prostelyzing kind of way, I highly recommend it. It's no Watchman or Sandman series, but definitiely interesting.

[Meursault]

Not one of the concepts you're all bandying about in this thread is meaningful in an ontological sense.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Not one of the concepts you're all bandying about in this thread is meaningful in an ontological sense.

I'm not sure how I want to respond to this so imagine whichever of the following you'd prefer:

1. No you
2. *insert appropriate The Big Lebowski quote here*
3. Sheesh, who died and made you Schopenhauer?

[DemPGH]

Assuming that E.T. would want to be baptized, this is the epitome of Old World arrogance. I mean it's a parody of it, actually.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

It's not assuming E.T. would, it's assuming some E.T.s might.

[afleitch]

It's not assuming E.T. would, it's assuming some E.T.s might.

It's assuming a lot about E.T's in general. Which is why it's a bizarre exercise.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

It's not assuming E.T. would, it's assuming some E.T.s might.

It's assuming a lot about E.T's in general. Which is why it's a bizarre exercise.

Agreed. I've never understood why the Vatican feels the need to have a position on this.