Jeb Bush: "Traditional marriage" can fight poverty better than government aid

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Too much weight is being given to the gay marriage angle. I mean, it's clear that was not what he was getting at. The relationship between single parenthood and poverty isn't remotely controversial, folks.

This relationship is incredibly controversial and fraught with inflammatory rhetoric. No one thinks that single parenthood isn't associated with poverty but the causality isn't clear and the level of emphasis social scientists place on explanatory variables inevitably places them in one of the two camps formed in the 60s. At the heart of this issue are powerful emotions that harken back to the genesis of the civil rights movement/feminism and the palpable sense of social disorder felt by social conservatives.

If you believe that marriage as a foundational relationship that needs to be upheld to habituate social mores, people of color and women get the sense that you're "victim blaming". Of course they want to be a part of loving families, they say, but that's next to impossible when men are getting incarcerated left and right or are in dead-end jobs or are sexists who perpetuate rape culture and domestic abuse.

If you believe that economic dislocation is the primary barrier to familial stability, conservatives get the sense that you're trying to find an excuse to use the state for the purposes of social engineering.

Have you ever heard of the Moynihan Report? The various reactions to the document are a great showcase of how traditional social cleavages morphed in the 60s. This statement by Jeb Bush is part of a long genealogy of conservative claims about poverty that date back to this document. This issue is where "movement conservatism" really found its legs as a mass ideology.

[bedstuy]

Too much weight is being given to the gay marriage angle. I mean, it's clear that was not what he was getting at. The relationship between single parenthood and poverty isn't remotely controversial, folks.

That's may be true, but it's annoying that Republicans need to clarify between marriage and  traditional marriage/marriage (no homo)/marriage classic/etc. 

[Matty]

He is not wrong. Married couples are significantly wealthier than single parent households. I love my mother, but she made my life significantly more miserable early on due to sexual irresponsibility.

I smile every time I see a family at the park.

[DemPGH]

There may be a core of truth to his observation (even though I know two professional single mothers who are doing quite well for themselves), but then is the right answer, the compassionate conservative answer, to tell poor single moms to marry a rich guy because their assistance is being canceled?

He is not wrong. Married couples are significantly wealthier than single parent households. I love my mother, but she made my life significantly more miserable early on due to sexual irresponsibility.

I smile every time I see a family at the park.

Right wing angst about female sexuality - can't forget that one!

[Bull Moose Base]

Nice shell game going on but Bush said "traditional marriage" a phrase used to pander to gay marriage opponents.  If and when Rob Portman makes the same point but says "any kind of loving marriage and family", what will the debate be? Families are a good thing? Democrats agree. We should cut food stamps and unemployment insurance because families are a good thing? Democrats disagree.

[Averroës Nix]

Marriage is at least in part a form of  government aid.

[Cassius]

sexual irresponsibility.

wat

Of course people can be sexually irresponsible, in just the same way as they can behave irresponsibly when it comes to money, drugs, or, actually, pretty much anything.

Anyway, well done Jebby, if I were an American I'd probably support you for the Presidency.

[CountryClassSF]

I am touched that Jeb would promote traditional marriage as many in the GOP are retreating on this very important issue.    It will be very important for Jeb to have backing in the conservative base  in this regard.

As a gay man, I acknowledge the reality that the best family is mom and dad.

He will have to also promise to appoint strict constructionist judges to the bench.

[Bull Moose Base]

I am touched that Jeb would promote traditional marriage as many in the GOP are retreating on this very important issue.    It will be very important for Jeb to have backing in the conservative base  in this regard.

As a gay man, I acknowledge the reality that the best family is mom and dad.

Wait, what did you say?

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

I am touched that Jeb would promote traditional marriage as many in the GOP are retreating on this very important issue.

this is true. however, it is not the moderates who are trying to destroy traditional marriage, but the conservatives.

[Non Swing Voter]

I support freedom of speech for everyone in this country except the Bush family.  They are just awful in every possible way.

[Bull Moose Base]

I am touched that Jeb would promote traditional marriage as many in the GOP are retreating on this very important issue.    It will be very important for Jeb to have backing in the conservative base  in this regard.

As a gay man, I acknowledge the reality that the best family is mom and dad.

Wait, what did you say?

No one else finds it interesting that the most extreme social conservative on the board says he's gay? That's not interesting? What am I missing?

[Mr. Morden]

I am touched that Jeb would promote traditional marriage as many in the GOP are retreating on this very important issue.    It will be very important for Jeb to have backing in the conservative base  in this regard.

As a gay man, I acknowledge the reality that the best family is mom and dad.

Wait, what did you say?

No one else finds it interesting that the most extreme social conservative on the board says he's gay? That's not interesting? What am I missing?

We've already had this discussion with/about CountryClassSF several times over.  E.g.,

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=187413.msg4054640#msg4054640

[Mr. Illini]

Nothing says moderate like blaming gay people for poverty.

[pavoter2016]

Too much weight is being given to the gay marriage angle. I mean, it's clear that was not what he was getting at. The relationship between single parenthood and poverty isn't remotely controversial, folks.

This is really such an ignorant comment to make. It's not that there isn't some sort of statistical relationship: yes, wealthy people tend to married more today, and single mothers tend to have lower incomes. But the research shows that this is because wealthy people tend more to plan families in advance, get married when ready and have long stable marriages in the first place, not because the marriage itself makes people wealthy. On the flip side, single mothers are quite clearly in an unstable position to begin with by virtue of their single parenthood. Poorer people are far far more likely to have unplanned pregnancies and children out of wedlock than well off people, thus explaining the relationship between single parenthood and income quite obviously. You have the causation reversed. Thus, marriage itself doesn't cause the economic well being; economic well being often predicts the marriage and family status of individuals. Jeb Bush's comments are completely false.  I feel like all this is so obvious, though, that I shouldn't have to explain it to anyone.

[CountryClassSF]

Nothing says moderate like blaming gay people for poverty.

Except that's not what Jeb said.

[Fuzzy Bear]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/bush-ryan-focus-poverty-while-courting-donors

"Bush, the son of one president and brother of another, called for more welcoming immigration policies, while offering his own poverty prescription: "A loving family taking care of their children in a traditional marriage will create the chance to break out of poverty far better, far better than any of the government programs that we can create."

I guess he felt that saying, "Women should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen" didn't quite have that 21st Century ring to it, so he needed to mix up the verbiage a little.

Jeb's a nauseating globalist, but he's absolutely right on this issue.  Tossing out all religious arguments, in the aggregate, there is no substitute for the traditional two-parent marital family.  There are alternatives, of course, but none of the alternatives provide the kind of stability and security for all family members than the two-parent marital family.  The practical advantages are overwhelming and numerous, but I'll list the top three:  TWO paychecks (which are now a necessity for most households), TWO adults to share the work in child-rearing, and TWO adults without the divided loyalties that adults in stepfamilies and blended families too often feel.

I'm not trying to be judgmental, and there are many folks who are victims of the bad behavior of a marital partner that NEED divorce or separation.  But the decision to become a single parent is, far more often then not, a decision to be poor, and to subject your children to poverty that is, quite often, harsh and unremitting.  A lot of folks have made these mistake and now have very hard lives.  I don't want to make their lives harder by saying "I told you so!", but the reality that child rearing REQUIRES the stability and security of a stable marital family for optimal outcomes of children is a clear verdict.  I consider the people who deny this to be on a par with those who deny the Holocaust or climate change.

[Marnetmar]

Less government, more Jesus!

[pbrower2a]

"Traditional marriage" still promotes poverty if it results in a large family with even a middle income.

Government has a role in creating a good climate for prosperity. It can foster thrift and investment it can promote the development of skill and learning; it can choose economic competition over crony capitalism. It can also destroy prosperity by fostering speculative booms that devour capital and inevitably implode. Policies intended to ensure the enrichment of the Right People (typically, existing elites) at the expense of everyone else ensure mass poverty despite the supposed promotion of 'growth'.   

[Never]

"Traditional marriage" still promotes poverty if it results in a large family with even a middle income.

Government has a role in creating a good climate for prosperity. It can foster thrift and investment it can promote the development of skill and learning; it can choose economic competition over crony capitalism. It can also destroy prosperity by fostering speculative booms that devour capital and inevitably implode. Policies intended to ensure the enrichment of the Right People (typically, existing elites) at the expense of everyone else ensure mass poverty despite the supposed promotion of 'growth'.   

Government fosters thrift?! How exactly? I doubt that.

I don't think that traditional marriage would promote outright poverty. In a large family, kids might not get their own bedrooms and as many material possessions, but for the most part, a couple in which at least one person is employed can probably cover the cost of food, clothes, and other things.

[pbrower2a]

"Traditional marriage" still promotes poverty if it results in a large family with even a middle income.

Government has a role in creating a good climate for prosperity. It can foster thrift and investment it can promote the development of skill and learning; it can choose economic competition over crony capitalism. It can also destroy prosperity by fostering speculative booms that devour capital and inevitably implode. Policies intended to ensure the enrichment of the Right People (typically, existing elites) at the expense of everyone else ensure mass poverty despite the supposed promotion of 'growth'.   

Government fosters thrift?! How exactly? I doubt that.

I don't think that traditional marriage would promote outright poverty. In a large family, kids might not get their own bedrooms and as many material possessions, but for the most part, a couple in which at least one person is employed can probably cover the cost of food, clothes, and other things.

You have never been to Appalachia or the Ozarks.

[Never]

"Traditional marriage" still promotes poverty if it results in a large family with even a middle income.

Government has a role in creating a good climate for prosperity. It can foster thrift and investment it can promote the development of skill and learning; it can choose economic competition over crony capitalism. It can also destroy prosperity by fostering speculative booms that devour capital and inevitably implode. Policies intended to ensure the enrichment of the Right People (typically, existing elites) at the expense of everyone else ensure mass poverty despite the supposed promotion of 'growth'.   

Government fosters thrift?! How exactly? I doubt that.

I don't think that traditional marriage would promote outright poverty. In a large family, kids might not get their own bedrooms and as many material possessions, but for the most part, a couple in which at least one person is employed can probably cover the cost of food, clothes, and other things.

You have never been to Appalachia or the Ozarks.

I haven't, but I know that those regions have structural economic problems, so I don't understand what you mean.