SENATE BILL:...Say What We Mean...Executive Departments Amendment (STR)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor: Shua

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We are now in the current month with regards legislation in the queue, both in terms of TNF and non-TNF bills.


oh, yea, what is this Shua?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We are paying the price throughout all of this for the way the "Carry-overs" were handled by Purple and Blue and the boys back in 2010.


SO ALL YOU CON-CON LUBBERS PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE LAST SECTION IF YOU GET TO THAT POINT!!!!

In a perfect scenario we would clean out the section or limit it in a similar fashion as we did with the amendment a few weeks now.

There does raise the debate though, should we have certain departments that need protection from the simple majority support to change them? Maybe like the Justice Department, which isn't in there at all but could present an issue if a political faction could just repeal it out of existance. I was wondering about this the last time.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This amendment is to correct the amendment we passed earlier, which attempted to reference the Senate's authority over executive departments in an indirect and vague way.  The language of Article 1, Section 5, Clause 28 does not apply to departments already existing in any clear way, so this amendment is to say just what the extent of the Senate's authority is over this area. 

Creation authority= absolute authority over said entity. The power to create is the power to likewise alter or destroy.

Article 1, Section 5, clause 28 thus applies to all Departments save for where the Constitution  itself creates them (Article VIII prior to the amendment a couple weeks back).

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This amendment is to correct the amendment we passed earlier, which attempted to reference the Senate's authority over executive departments in an indirect and vague way.  The language of Article 1, Section 5, Clause 28 does not apply to departments already existing in any clear way, so this amendment is to say just what the extent of the Senate's authority is over this area. 

Creation authority= absolute authority over said entity. The power to create is the power to likewise alter or destroy.

Article 1, Section 5, clause 28 thus applies to all Departments save for where the Constitution  itself creates them (Article VIII prior to the amendment a couple weeks back).

Interesting theory, but there's nothing in the Constitution itself to indicate that.

Supreme Court Precent does. Ebowed v. Atlasia I think for constitutional officers, NC Yankee v. Atlasia for Executive Departments.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't think the intent behind Article VIII was ever to create a class of Constitutionally Created Departments like it ended up doing. There was a clause in there in the previous Constitution that basically exempted it from Article VII and allowed for it be amended by legislation. Purple state and others wisely weren't satifisfied with that and removed it. However, they should have left something in that said the Section was merely for transitional purpose and or whatnot.

And yes, I think that the best approach would be to just clear all that out of that Section but I didn't think that was going to pass.

I would hope that people would research the matter, but it is doubtful shua. I would ask, does that situation not apply to most amendments though? 

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We have to consider flexibility as well in case we may need to do something more then just rename them. I think they can already assign duties them to under the NC Yankee v. Atlasia ruling, they just cannot contradict what the Constittuion establishes, ie creation authority. Therefore the ability to amend them structuralyl is somewhat limited.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Minimum debate time is expired.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

A Final Vote is now open on this Amendment, Senators please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I have all these concerns going each ways here and I am really not sure.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

AYE Guess

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Final Vote on Senate Passage of The Let's Say What We Mean About Senate Power over the Executive Departments Amendment:

Aye (7): Alfred F. Jones, bore, Goldwater, NC Yankee, shua, TNF and TyriontheImperialist
Nay (0):
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (3): Adam Griffin, DC al Fine and Lumine

The amendment has passed the Senate and is sent to the Regions.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This is presently passing in all regions, but turnout is abysmal.


All threads that I checked seem to have two days left. Regional Senators may want to PM a reminder to there executive at this point. Maybe try to boost the turnout even.