SENATE BILL: Ukrainian Technical, Economical and Military Aid (Debating)

[Adam Griffin]

Aye

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

NAY


Why is section 5 being cut? Were it not for that I would lean towards supporting the amendment, though I would also prefer to keep section 3 as well considering the circumstances they are in.

[TNF]

This is just an absurd. We cannot require them to ban the "Right Sector". We can ask them not to include their leaders in government roles but we cannot ask them to destroy an organization.

We did it during the Cold War, as a condition of Marshall Plan aid.

I'm not in the Cold War anymore....

Better give Lumine the heads up on that one.

Hey, I'm not the one advocating for the ideology who lost, xD

I'm not a Marxist-Leninist, dude.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

NAY


Why is section 5 being cut? Were it not for that I would lean towards supporting the amendment, though I would also prefer to keep section 3 as well considering the circumstances they are in.

Section 5 is all about the conditions on which the money is being given to the Ukrainian government. Since this amendment directs that the goals of this bill instead be accomplished through funding to entities other than the Ukrainian government, it is not relevant.

[President Tyrion]

Aye

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

NAY


Why is section 5 being cut? Were it not for that I would lean towards supporting the amendment, though I would also prefer to keep section 3 as well considering the circumstances they are in.

Section 5 is all about the conditions on which the money is being given to the Ukrainian government. Since this amendment directs that the goals of this bill instead be accomplished through funding to entities other than the Ukrainian government, it is not relevant.

Sure, but in that case wouldn't section just be amended to reflect that change instead of removed?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Time is up on the amendment vote Cincy.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

NAY


Why is section 5 being cut? Were it not for that I would lean towards supporting the amendment, though I would also prefer to keep section 3 as well considering the circumstances they are in.

Section 5 is all about the conditions on which the money is being given to the Ukrainian government. Since this amendment directs that the goals of this bill instead be accomplished through funding to entities other than the Ukrainian government, it is not relevant.

Sure, but in that case wouldn't section just be amended to reflect that change instead of removed?

You mean limit what money we give to third parties based on what the Ukrainian government does or doesn't do? 

[Cincinnatus]

Vote on amendment 61:52 by shua:

Aye (6): TNF, shua, bore, DC, Griffin, and Tyrion
Nay (4): Lumine, Alfred, Goldwater, Yankee
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (0):

The amendment has been adopted.

[Cincinnatus]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Feedback: Hostile
Status: A vote is now open on the aforementioned amendment.  Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

[Lumine]

Nay.

[Sec. of State Superique]

Nay.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

NAY

I don't support the deletion of Section 1.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

NAY

[TNF]

Aye

[bore]

Nay

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Nay.

[Goldwater]

NAY

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You can end this vote now Cincy.

[President Tyrion]

Nay

[Cincinnatus]

Vote on Ukrainian Technical, Economical and Military Aid:

Aye (1): TNF
Nay [8]: Lumine, shua, Yankee, bore, Alfred, Goldwater, and Tyrion
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (2): Griffin, and DC

The amendment has been rejected.

[Lumine]

It might seem I'm almost ready with this one, but may I see the current text, please?

[Deus Naturae]

Why did TNF's amendment fail so badly? Section 1 of this bill is totally ridiculous. Why would we ever spend money tracking down the stolen assets of a corrupt Ukrainian leader when there are far more corrupt governments all over the world?  Why are we trying to micromanage Ukraine's economy when there are much poorer countries all over the world? I mean, really, what need is there to spend taxpayer money "diversifying Ukrainian trade?" Where is this money coming from anyway?

[Lumine]

Why did TNF's amendment fail so badly? Section 1 of this bill is totally ridiculous. Why would we ever spend money tracking down the stolen assets of a corrupt Ukrainian leader when there are far more corrupt governments all over the world?  Why are we trying to micromanage Ukraine's economy when there are much poorer countries all over the world? I mean, really, what need is there to spend taxpayer money "diversifying Ukrainian trade?" Where is this money coming from anyway?

Oh, boy, it seems we're going to have a lot of disagreements should you get elected, Deus, xD

If you wish to track down other corrupt governments and help other poor countries I invite you to write a bill regarding that issue, but in this moment my concern is Ukraine due to the geopolitical and strategical situation and because I believe it's important to contain Russia and prevent them from taking over the country (we did committ ourselves to defend their integrity in the 1990's after all). This money is coming from our budget, and I certainly don't feel the need to point out exactly where it comes from. I am very concerned about our budget, truly, and once that discussion arrives I'll work hard to make sure this is not an extra burden for the government. But I am more than willing to spend our money in the foreign stage in order to achieve results, and right now I am interested in achieving positive results in Ukraine. Leaving things alone so they can sort out the issue themselves is a poor choice to take, I believe, specially when our intervention could help that nation.

[Deus Naturae]

Why did TNF's amendment fail so badly? Section 1 of this bill is totally ridiculous. Why would we ever spend money tracking down the stolen assets of a corrupt Ukrainian leader when there are far more corrupt governments all over the world?  Why are we trying to micromanage Ukraine's economy when there are much poorer countries all over the world? I mean, really, what need is there to spend taxpayer money "diversifying Ukrainian trade?" Where is this money coming from anyway?

Oh, boy, it seems we're going to have a lot of disagreements should you get elected, Deus, xD

If you wish to track down other corrupt governments and help other poor countries I invite you to write a bill regarding that issue, but in this moment my concern is Ukraine due to the geopolitical and strategical situation and because I believe it's important to contain Russia and prevent them from taking over the country (we did committ ourselves to defend their integrity in the 1990's after all). This money is coming from our budget, and I certainly don't feel the need to point out exactly where it comes from. I am very concerned about our budget, truly, and once that discussion arrives I'll work hard to make sure this is not an extra burden for the government. But I am more than willing to spend our money in the foreign stage in order to achieve results, and right now I am interested in achieving positive results in Ukraine. Leaving things alone so they can sort out the issue themselves is a poor choice to take, I believe, specially when our intervention could help that nation.

What does tracking down Yanukovych's stolen goodies have to do with "containing Russia?" How can the money come from "our budget" when we don't have a budget surplus (or so I'm told)? If this bill is successful, we would need to borrow the money, and if we did we would have to use some sort of borrowing instrument (such as a Treasury bond). You need to decide what that is before you pass this bill. Also, what does "diversifying Ukrainian trade" have to do with "containing Russia" or "defending Ukrainian integrity?"