SENATE BILL: The Bicameral Birthing Amendment of 2014 (sent to the Regions?)

[bore]

The other problem I see with TNF's proposal is the senate and the president are basically powerless. In the RL, sure delaying a bill for two years has an effect but in atlasia it just doesn't- no one will run for the senate when the house is where the action clearly is.

I don't disagree that a unicameral legislature or a bicameral one with only revising powers is better than the US's system, but it's far less fun to play.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

So let's just keep the current proposal. I think it strikes a nice balance between all branches of government and certainly is the most realistic chance we have at actually passing it.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Is 11 members enough for a party-list proportional system to work?   Or would we need more?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Is 11 members enough for a party-list proportional system to work?   Or would we need more?

I'd wager to say less is more in this case. I think we all want to see competitive elections, and 11 is enough, with a 6 member senate, to achieve that goal. I don't want to get in the situation where the House is uncontested and all 11 people who run will get in, sans maybe 1 or 2 people.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The other problem I see with TNF's proposal is the senate and the president are basically powerless. In the RL, sure delaying a bill for two years has an effect but in atlasia it just doesn't- no one will run for the senate when the house is where the action clearly is.

I made this point in the debate thread for the IDS senate race, as well, few would want to run for the Senate in that case. I didn't even notice that the President was likewise treated so. We elect our President democratically for a reason, there is no need to treat it like British Monarchy.

Now the Russian Monarchy (provided Duke was Tsar), that might be something acceptable.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This seems to have deflated some.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Where are we now on this? Can we keep the original plan as we have it? I'm OK with a Russian Monarchy too if you just install Cinci and me as leaders forever, provided we can take months off at a time.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What do you mean by original plan? We do have to insert some kind of responsbilities into the text because thep resent text of Article 1 is designed for unicamerialism. You had suggested that the house have first crack at all bills, regardless of who introduced them and then Senate would have to pass them subsequently. I like this structure. It is relatively simple and will avoid cluttered mess, whilst still ensuring that both chambers are equally important.

That still leaves the issue of confirmation hearings as well.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

What do you mean by original plan? We do have to insert some kind of responsbilities into the text because thep resent text of Article 1 is designed for unicamerialism. You had suggested that the house have first crack at all bills, regardless of who introduced them and then Senate would have to pass them subsequently. I like this structure. It is relatively simple and will avoid cluttered mess, whilst still ensuring that both chambers are equally important.

That still leaves the issue of confirmation hearings as well.

Yes, that's what I mean. I am trying to avoid this veering offtrack and becoming a debate between this and a parliamentary system with a figurehead president, which I think would do the opposite of what we want government reform to accomplish.

We do need to amend this for what I outlined above. As for confirmation hearings, I say we leave them to the Senate. The House has the power to have first crack at bills which the Senate retains their oversight duties like confirmation hearings for cabinet members and Supreme Court justice nominees.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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2. Article 1, Section 4 of the Third Constitution of Atlasia is amended to read:

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Section 3: The Addition of the House

1. Article 1, Section 8 of the Third Constitution shall be entitled “The House” and shall read:
   

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Section 4: House Districts and Elections

1. Article 1, Section 9 of the Third Constitution shall be entitled “Elections to the House” and shall read:

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[/quote]

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Reason number 877 for a Convention, bore. Article 1 will be rather messy after this.


Also we need a combined for the combined legislature since some of those passages work better now like (establish its own rules and with 2/3rds majority, expell a member) work better applying to both and it would be less lengthy then haveing too lines for the same thing. So Congress, Legislature, Duke's Chamber of Death, etc etc etc. and whatever and just switch it out with Senate in that instance.

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Of course you want to word it so that each chamber has sole custody of its own rules.

[President Tyrion]

If we're doing Party-list representation in the House, then we might want to consider that a Party can choose to expel its own House members.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Its possible. Have we decided the election method for the house yet?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Its possible. Have we decided the election method for the house yet?

Election for what? I thought we agreed the House would be elected entirely on an at-large basis every two months and the Senate would be two per region every 6 months?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Its possible. Have we decided the election method for the house yet?

Election for what? I thought we agreed the House would be elected entirely on an at-large basis every two months and the Senate would be two per region every 6 months?

The text was only amended with regards to the Senate I believe. The rest of it (lower portions) still contains whatever Adam's initial text had, which I think is districts.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Do we want to re-write that text or just strike what we want to move to the House? We want the House to have the power to introduce bills and pass them prior to the Senate...perhaps have them conduct impeachment hearings, and have the Senate be the final gatekeeper to pass the bills and retail the power to conduct confirmation hearings, vote on treaties, etc.

Do we want constitutional amendments to only be introduced in the Senate?

[TNF]

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2. Article 1, Section 4 of the Third Constitution of Atlasia is amended to read:

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Section 3: The Addition of the House

1. Article 1, Section 8 of the Third Constitution shall be entitled “The House” and shall read:
   

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Section 4: House Districts and Elections

1. Article 1, Section 9 of the Third Constitution shall be entitled “Elections to the House” and shall read:

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[/quote]

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Sponsor?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What if the vacant seat does not belong to member of an organized party?

[Adam Griffin]

Amendment is friendly.

[President Tyrion]

Er, if my objection accidentally triggers a vote, I can withdraw it. Whatever makes things go faster...

[Adam Griffin]

What if the vacant seat does not belong to member of an organized party?

We can deal with this in several different ways.

We of course could just have an election for the seat in question.

We could allow the House to vote on a list of declared candidates, whom will have one week or so after the vacancy occurs to make their intent to run known.

We could even allow the Governor of the region of the person who has vacated the seat to make an appointment, though I find myself opposed to the idea of giving regions any say in this chamber's affairs.

[President Tyrion]

What if the vacant seat does not belong to member of an organized party?

We can deal with this in several different ways.

We of course could just have an election for the seat in question.

We could allow the House to vote on a list of declared candidates, whom will have one week or so after the vacancy occurs to make their intent to run known.

We could even allow the Governor of the region of the person who has vacated the seat to make an appointment, though I find myself opposed to the idea of giving regions any say in this chamber's affairs.

Honestly, with two month terms, why not just leave the seat vacant?

[Adam Griffin]

What if the vacant seat does not belong to member of an organized party?

We can deal with this in several different ways.

We of course could just have an election for the seat in question.

We could allow the House to vote on a list of declared candidates, whom will have one week or so after the vacancy occurs to make their intent to run known.

We could even allow the Governor of the region of the person who has vacated the seat to make an appointment, though I find myself opposed to the idea of giving regions any say in this chamber's affairs.

Honestly, with two month terms, why not just leave the seat vacant?

That's viable, too, though I'd hate to have a situation in which we had a vacant seat for 7 weeks or so.