SENATE BILL: The Bicameral Birthing Amendment of 2014 (sent to the Regions?)

[bore]

I'd suggest that we separate the bill from the Fix the Regions bill before we put it to a vote.

Well, the problem would be dealing with the amount of offices, since we would have seventeen Atlasians serving in the Senate and House with the current project, something that it may be really hard to maintain with the current activity levels and with most of the regional governments in crisis. As many others noted during the discussion it doesn't seem really feasible unless we reduce the House and the Senate, and that would affect its own efficiency as well...

Exactly. JCL is just trying to kill it; it's tied to FTRA for two reasons: the first being that the number of offices have to be dealt with before we even consider adding new ones, and the second being an incentive to actually ratify FTRA in the first place. Bicameralism without FTRA would be a disaster. You can have 5 regions and 1 chamber (and even that's debatable from the perspective of activity), or you can have 3 regions and 2 chambers; there's no mix and match approach that will work as intended.

Griffin's right. There's no way the numbers can be made to work short of consolidation, or two or three regions voluntarily abolishing their legislatures. And the second is not going to happen.

[Dr. Cynic]

Agreed. If we're going to do this, we'll have to have some sort of consolidation. Without that, there's no point in passing this.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Yes, that was my whole purpose from the start. Did no one here read my September 2013 memo?

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

I'm not trying to kill the bicameral bill. I want a bicameral legislation but without any possibility of consolidation attached to it. Consolidation is dead and a bicameral legislation is alive.

[Simfan34]

How would this work?

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

How would this work?

We would have 5 elected senators one from each region. In the house we'd have 11 members (10 elected/ via regions 2 per region one national at-large). Basically along American lines. The FTRA would be separated from the bill and effectively killed. That's how consolidation dies.

[Simfan34]

See your campaign thread. How would the numbers work?

[Adam Griffin]

lolno

You don't seem to get that subtracting 5 Senators and then adding 10+ House members results in a net addition of offices. We have too many offices. FTRA has to be ratified prior to enactment of this amendment to ensure that the consolidation/committee process occurs, which determines maps and deals with the needed reduction in offices, which justifies the whole damn thing in the first place. If that's stripped, then you end up with more offices than we began with and there's no point to it. Carrot and stick.

The framework of this bill as introduced was/is superior to anything you're going to propose and needs no modification; it's all there for a reason. All that needs input is what the House will actually do and how its tasks relate to any existing (or new) responsibilities of the Senate and executive branch.

Motion to table JCL for the remainder of this discussion.

[TNF]

Given that the sponsor indicated that he was ready for a final vote three days ago, and given that we haven't really heard anything else substantive on this matter, I'm going to open a final vote.

Senators, a final vote is now open on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

[Goldwater]

AYE

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Given that the sponsor indicated that he was ready for a final vote three days ago, and given that we haven't really heard anything else substantive on this matter, I'm going to open a final vote.

Senators, a final vote is now open on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

So what your saying is what I've been saying for the past several weeks doesn't matter to this debate?

[Dr. Cynic]

Given that the sponsor indicated that he was ready for a final vote three days ago, and given that we haven't really heard anything else substantive on this matter, I'm going to open a final vote.

Senators, a final vote is now open on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

So what your saying is what I've been saying for the past several weeks doesn't matter to this debate?

Not that it doesn't matter. I'm happy with the bill as is and I want to have the vote.

Aye.

[bore]

Aye

[TNF]

Given that the sponsor indicated that he was ready for a final vote three days ago, and given that we haven't really heard anything else substantive on this matter, I'm going to open a final vote.

Senators, a final vote is now open on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

So what your saying is what I've been saying for the past several weeks doesn't matter to this debate?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It contains what I insisted on regarding the Senate so AYE

[President Tyrion]

Aye

Given that the sponsor indicated that he was ready for a final vote three days ago, and given that we haven't really heard anything else substantive on this matter, I'm going to open a final vote.

Senators, a final vote is now open on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

So what your saying is what I've been saying for the past several weeks doesn't matter to this debate?

You just aren't seeing agreement. You can't complain about that. We just all disagree with you.

[Cassius]

Nay. I cannot, with a good conscience, vote for a bill that proposes to break up my region.

[bore]

Given that the sponsor indicated that he was ready for a final vote three days ago, and given that we haven't really heard anything else substantive on this matter, I'm going to open a final vote.

Senators, a final vote is now open on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

So what your saying is what I've been saying for the past several weeks doesn't matter to this debate?

Well, you're neither a senator, nor have any senators actually put forward your views in an amendment or as a point, so, procedurally, yes, what you're saying doesn't matter.

[PPT Spiral]

Nay

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Given that the sponsor indicated that he was ready for a final vote three days ago, and given that we haven't really heard anything else substantive on this matter, I'm going to open a final vote.

Senators, a final vote is now open on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

So what your saying is what I've been saying for the past several weeks doesn't matter to this debate?

Well, you're neither a senator, nor have any senators actually put forward your views in an amendment or as a point, so, procedurally, yes, what you're saying doesn't matter.

Cassius speaks on my behalf.

[bore]

Given that the sponsor indicated that he was ready for a final vote three days ago, and given that we haven't really heard anything else substantive on this matter, I'm going to open a final vote.

Senators, a final vote is now open on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

So what your saying is what I've been saying for the past several weeks doesn't matter to this debate?

Well, you're neither a senator, nor have any senators actually put forward your views in an amendment or as a point, so, procedurally, yes, what you're saying doesn't matter.

Cassius speaks on my behalf.

Not in this thread he didn't.

[Lumine]

Aye.

[Dr. Cynic]

Given that the sponsor indicated that he was ready for a final vote three days ago, and given that we haven't really heard anything else substantive on this matter, I'm going to open a final vote.

Senators, a final vote is now open on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

So what your saying is what I've been saying for the past several weeks doesn't matter to this debate?

Well, you're neither a senator, nor have any senators actually put forward your views in an amendment or as a point, so, procedurally, yes, what you're saying doesn't matter.

Cassius speaks on my behalf.

And he's voted now. Most of the Senate disagrees with this view.

[TNF]

Abstain

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Aye.