SENATE BILL: The Bicameral Birthing Amendment of 2014 (sent to the Regions?)

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Every time I see the title of this thread I think of Jessica Raine.

How did you come up with 11 House members?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

How would sponsorship of bills introduced by Senators work when the bills go to the House?  Will bills require a sponsor on the House as well?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Is 11 members enough for a party-list proportional system to work?   Or would we need more?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What if the vacant seat does not belong to member of an organized party?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

This is remarkable similar to the debate over how to deal with the late term At-Large vacancies, which Parties can fill. But of course there, it is a shorter period time then seven or eight weeks obviously. Also if there are multiple indy vacancies that could be rather problematic.

With PR, how many indies would be expected to be able to win? Is it possible for more then oen to win?

I think if we do an open-list election for all 11 seats, and there is an independent/minor party list, or perhaps even two such lists, and there ar some strong candidates, more than one win should be possible.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Nay

I think we should have either some at-large Senators or an open-list PR House.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I support open-list PR. I would not support a closed list PR, which I believe would be detrimental to small parties and independents.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

You are saying there is a reason that open list might hurt indies and third parties instead of help them?

I should sit back down and think about what I had some nights ago before I forgot.

In the case of a House with 11 members, though: yes, I could see it making a difference. If the independent/other caucus were a thing and you had a closed list, then a united front might produce 2 or 3 representatives, whereas a open list system would encourage each faction to split their votes, leaving them in the same circumstance with only 1 or 2. A closed list system for them could be produced with a caucus-wide vote, allowing most likely for a left-leaning member and a right-leaning member to be in the top 2. With this, a united front would keep things balanced within the caucus.

Precisely due to what shua mentioned, allowing each faction to split their votes along ideology or a specific party could mean that no faction actually generates enough support to elect a representative. If the major parties have closed list systems, then it's going to become a lot less prevalent for independents and smaller parties to pull the votes of major party voters when they're having to cast a ballot for a different party, rather than an individual from a different party. If the big parties go with closed list, the others are going to be at a disadvantage if they do not.

I don't understand your second paragraph.

Regardless of whether it is closed or open, all the votes for a list go to one or another candidate on the list, correct?  If I first preference candidate X on list A, the vote still goes to list A even if candidate X does not end up himself winning - at least that is my understanding.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

My understanding of an open-list is that an individual candidate would not need to reach a quota to be elected if they are the first in a list that reaches the quota or a list that otherwise earns a seat.  There's no reason multiple small parties and independents couldn't band together in an open-list system, and the possibility of people voting for such a list may be more attractive when a voter can make a preference between the diverse candidates on a list.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Sure, we want people to vote for individuals and not just parties. This is one reason why I would support an open over a closed list, but either way, having a party list for the House but not in the Senate seems to me like a good option.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'm ok with balance, but I just think party lists in general are a bad idea.
What is an open party list exactly? Anything that entails simply voting for a party over a person sounds like a bad idea to me.

An open party list involves voting for a party, but you can at the same time vote a preference of one party member over another.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

In the game though, I would rather have an active intelligent right winger like shua in the senate than an inactive left wing hack.

aw, thanks bore!