SENATE BILL: The Bicameral Birthing Amendment of 2014 (sent to the Regions?)

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Why are we not considering FPTP or IRV in the lower house? It would promote more activity if we had competitive 1-1 or 1-1-1 elections rather than party lists? If we plan on having a lower house with two reps per district and 1 national at large wouldn't FPTP and IRV be a better arrangement? I'm supportive of going to a bicameral system but my concerns are what I've addressed here.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

I don't wish to state something that sounds definitive with the poll opened for less than two days, but so far the results don't seem particularly encouraging as Duke predicted. FPTP seems like a reasonable choice for Federalists and Laborites, but smaller parties will probably suffer even more than with the current system. Should we measure public opinion on that as well once Duke's poll has the final results?

A version of this plan would allow for IRV in the event of no one achieving 50% + 1 alongside FPTP to encourage our smaller parties to be competitive.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

2 Individual races in each region with one at-large

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Presumably JCL means that each region has 2 separate regionwide elections and there is one nationwide election by either STV or FPTP.

Personally I think that districts could be fun, especially if they were FPTP, but that would require limiting regional moves (IIRC that amendment passed the senate, so it would just need to be ratified by more regions).

Although, as I said before, I'll support anything that makes this amendment easier to pass.

Two separate region wide FPTP with the possibly of run offs and one nationwide FPTP race with the possibility of a runoff. Bore pretty much got it right.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

The intent is to not divide the regions into districts. All citizens within each region will get to vote on both assembly races.

 

If we're doing districts we have to change state moves. There is no other option.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Nor is consolidating to three regions.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Nor is consolidating to three regions.

Due to the number of offices a bicameral structure creates, we have no choice but consolidation.

Not under my plan which could be different from Duke if Duke's plan does.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

So, let me get this straight...if we create more offices, we'll have to destroy two of the Regions to solve the problem of...too many offices? If that's the case, why create more offices two begin with?

You'll be pleased to know that the strawman you just erected isn't actually relevant to the debate.

The bicameral system is not being proposed to reduce the number of offices (though it will, likely, have that effect, but only slightly) - it is proposed because some people think that a bicameral system would be more fun to play than a unicameral one. However, because a bicameral system must lead to an increase in federal offices, because there are only a finite number of players, we need to decrease the number of regional offices.

Consolidation is a necessary byproduct, but a byproduct is all it is.

I would seriously disagree with that. You only get a net increase of 5 offices. That does not warrant consolidating to three regions. Many supporters of consolidation (especially on the left) want to do so to send my region into oblivion out of political expediency.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

So, let me get this straight...if we create more offices, we'll have to destroy two of the Regions to solve the problem of...too many offices? If that's the case, why create more offices two begin with?

You'll be pleased to know that the strawman you just erected isn't actually relevant to the debate.

The bicameral system is not being proposed to reduce the number of offices (though it will, likely, have that effect, but only slightly) - it is proposed because some people think that a bicameral system would be more fun to play than a unicameral one. However, because a bicameral system must lead to an increase in federal offices, because there are only a finite number of players, we need to decrease the number of regional offices.

Consolidation is a necessary byproduct, but a byproduct is all it is.

I would seriously disagree with that. You only get a net increase of 5 offices. That does not warrant consolidating to three regions. Many supporters of consolidation (especially on the left) want to do so to send my region into oblivion out of political expediency.

Uh, no. Surprisingly, the world does not revolve around you.

You're right in that the world doesn't revolve around me. Needless to say however is that the left did try to take a blowtorch to my region while merely merging two of their weaker ones. Good thing I had support across party lines to preserve the five region system.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

I'd suggest that we separate the bill from the Fix the Regions bill before we put it to a vote.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

I'm not trying to kill the bicameral bill. I want a bicameral legislation but without any possibility of consolidation attached to it. Consolidation is dead and a bicameral legislation is alive.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

How would this work?

We would have 5 elected senators one from each region. In the house we'd have 11 members (10 elected/ via regions 2 per region one national at-large). Basically along American lines. The FTRA would be separated from the bill and effectively killed. That's how consolidation dies.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Given that the sponsor indicated that he was ready for a final vote three days ago, and given that we haven't really heard anything else substantive on this matter, I'm going to open a final vote.

Senators, a final vote is now open on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

So what your saying is what I've been saying for the past several weeks doesn't matter to this debate?

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Given that the sponsor indicated that he was ready for a final vote three days ago, and given that we haven't really heard anything else substantive on this matter, I'm going to open a final vote.

Senators, a final vote is now open on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

So what your saying is what I've been saying for the past several weeks doesn't matter to this debate?

Well, you're neither a senator, nor have any senators actually put forward your views in an amendment or as a point, so, procedurally, yes, what you're saying doesn't matter.

Cassius speaks on my behalf.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Given that the sponsor indicated that he was ready for a final vote three days ago, and given that we haven't really heard anything else substantive on this matter, I'm going to open a final vote.

Senators, a final vote is now open on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

So what your saying is what I've been saying for the past several weeks doesn't matter to this debate?

Well, you're neither a senator, nor have any senators actually put forward your views in an amendment or as a point, so, procedurally, yes, what you're saying doesn't matter.

Cassius speaks on my behalf.

And he's voted now. Most of the Senate disagrees with this view.

I sympathize with it and continue to be rather skeptical about consolidation as an independent question. But as I see it, this is a somewhat acceptable structure, "should it come to pass" and I promised I would vote Aye if it had a regional Senate. I wish that what JCL and Cassius wanted was practical, because I would be more then willing to jump on board.

What we want is practical. I'm gonna just say it loud and clear. Even if I were not a resident of the Mideast I would oppose consolidation because of the deliberate targeting of the region while the the western two simply get to merge into one while the IDS and Northeast benefit by splitting much of said region between the two. I'm more than willing to show how my proposal would work if this fine body would like. In both three and current map scenario.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Given that the sponsor indicated that he was ready for a final vote three days ago, and given that we haven't really heard anything else substantive on this matter, I'm going to open a final vote.

Senators, a final vote is now open on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

So what your saying is what I've been saying for the past several weeks doesn't matter to this debate?

Well, you're neither a senator, nor have any senators actually put forward your views in an amendment or as a point, so, procedurally, yes, what you're saying doesn't matter.

Cassius speaks on my behalf.

And he's voted now. Most of the Senate disagrees with this view.

I sympathize with it and continue to be rather skeptical about consolidation as an independent question. But as I see it, this is a somewhat acceptable structure, "should it come to pass" and I promised I would vote Aye if it had a regional Senate. I wish that what JCL and Cassius wanted was practical, because I would be more then willing to jump on board.

What we want is practical. I'm gonna just say it loud and clear. Even if I were not a resident of the Mideast I would oppose consolidation because of the deliberate targeting of the region while the the western two simply get to merge into one while the IDS and Northeast benefit by splitting much of said region between the two. I'm more than willing to show how my proposal would work if this fine body would like. In both three and current map scenario.

Unless you've somehow discovered a new law of mathematics it can't. The numbers simply don't fit.

How would my numbers not fit? You're only adding 5 maybe 6 seats. How does that warrant eliminating one region and merging two. The proponents of consolidation have failed to explain that.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Does anyone else remember when the entire regional government that JCL serves in virtually ceased to exist for a month? I seem to remember the Mideast going dormant through all of July.

And now that I think about it, no one had posted in any of your region's threads over the past 10 days when I checked te Regional Government board yesterday...

When two assemblymen are promoted to the Senate it's kinda hard to have an active assembly. I tried to explain that to Gov. Riley but he had other plans and was dead set on said plan. Sadly I have been proven right in this situation.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Does anyone else remember when the entire regional government that JCL serves in virtually ceased to exist for a month? I seem to remember the Mideast going dormant through all of July.

And now that I think about it, no one had posted in any of your region's threads over the past 10 days when I checked te Regional Government board yesterday...

When two assemblymen are promoted to the Senate it's kinda hard to have an active assembly. I tried to explain that to Gov. Riley but he had other plans and was dead set on said plan. Sadly I have been proven right in this situation.

The Mideast Constitution allows for recall petitions. Maybe that's something to consider? I don't have a problem with Riley, and we've worked together at the federal without his absences becoming an issue, but I'd be irritated if my region's government were as inactive as the Mideast has been all summer.

I'm quite irritated with it. We're just a month out from a regional election so I'm not sure a recall would be wise but I'm thinking about it.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Does anyone else remember when the entire regional government that JCL serves in virtually ceased to exist for a month? I seem to remember the Mideast going dormant through all of July.

And now that I think about it, no one had posted in any of your region's threads over the past 10 days when I checked te Regional Government board yesterday...

When two assemblymen are promoted to the Senate it's kinda hard to have an active assembly. I tried to explain that to Gov. Riley but he had other plans and was dead set on said plan. Sadly I have been proven right in this situation.

The Mideast Constitution allows for recall petitions. Maybe that's something to consider? I don't have a problem with Riley, and we've worked together at the federal without his absences becoming an issue, but I'd be irritated if my region's government were as inactive as the Mideast has been all summer.

I'm quite irritated with it. We're just a month out from a regional election so I'm not sure a recall would be wise but I'm thinking about it.

No one wants you anywhere near high office, get over it.

E tu SimFan? Given the times I've stood by you one would think it'd lead to a good return given the nature of the game. What's the reason for the harshness?

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

With all due respect, nobody likes you, Mr. JCL, sir. You are what could be described as a cancer.

A certain geologist in RL begs to differ with you. You just hate the fact I represent a view not many on this site are willing to have an open mind towards all the while it's demanded of me to conform to the predominant views of the site. I'm not the cancer here.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

The only qualm most of us have with your view, dear JCL, is that your plan would increase the number of offices in the game. In a time where we can hardly keep each position filled, we don't need to be adding more positions to fill. I am confident that if this plan passed, we'd see renewed interest in the game, but I could be wrong, hell, I'm wrong far often than I'd like to admit.

My response was to Senator Jones's personal attack. As I've said I'm open to your view but I have difficulty due to the tying it to the dissolution of my region while the others are preserved in some way, shape or form. I've been made aware of another bicameral proposal which would preserve all five regions.