SENATE BILL: Right to Empowerment Act of 2014 (Failed)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[/quote]

Sponsor: TNF

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

No non-TNF bills and clogging rule only applies if there are subsequent bills by other Senators.


So what is this man?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Unions are good contributors to my election campaign the Atlasian working class. I support this bill.

[TNF]

This bill will streamline the union recognition and unionization process, and will allow more workers to form unions.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

How does this work presently? What is the limit on the number of workers and so forth in a business that can be unionized?

[TNF]

How does this work presently? What is the limit on the number of workers and so forth in a business that can be unionized?

As it stands, there are no limits on what businesses can be unionized and by how many workers. What this law does, in effect, is regularly schedule union elections, and thus make it easier for workers to organize unions.

[President Tyrion]

So does this effectively mean we're creating a "union year"? Can't we just make these elections the day after Labor Day or something, so we don't to create a new calendar? Or am I misunderstanding?

[TNF]

So does this effectively mean we're creating a "union year"? Can't we just make these elections the day after Labor Day or something, so we don't to create a new calendar? Or am I misunderstanding?

This bill schedules an election in all non-union workplaces a month after the beginning of a new year. I would be completely fine with changing that date around to Labor Day (which in Atlasia is May 1st, mind) if that's what the Senate would prefer on this bill.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=183535.msg4010374#msg4010374


Why wasn't this included as part of this previous act?

[President Tyrion]

So does this effectively mean we're creating a "union year"? Can't we just make these elections the day after Labor Day or something, so we don't to create a new calendar? Or am I misunderstanding?

This bill schedules an election in all non-union workplaces a month after the beginning of a new year. I would be completely fine with changing that date around to Labor Day (which in Atlasia is May 1st, mind) if that's what the Senate would prefer on this bill.

Oh, so I did misunderstand. The election just needs to be in January? That's fine with me.

Of course, we now need to specify what type of year we mean (Gregorian vs. Atlasian) thanks to Simfan's ridiculous policy on the matter.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What is the President's view on this at present?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I've always been leery of forcing people to hold union elections or forcing them to join unions. It's called collective bargaining for a reason. I don't want to give unions too much power like I don't want businesses having too much power.

Presently, if workers want to hold a union vote, what is stopping them? We outlaws all kinds of union busting tactics already to give them more freedom to operate.

[Adam Griffin]

Do we not have existing laws in place that more or less allow for this? It was my understanding that a vote on unionization by employers could be brought essentially at any time. I'm not against this; just trying to figure out where current unionization measures stand, because we've proposed and passed a lot regarding unionization over the past year or so.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Do we not have existing laws in place that more or less allow for this? It was my understanding that a vote on unionization by employers could be brought essentially at any time. I'm not against this; just trying to figure out where current unionization measures stand, because we've proposed and passed a lot regarding unionization over the past year or so.

From my understanding, unions have plenty of rights and methods by which they are heard, and we already heavily restrict anyone from breaking up or forbidding unions from forming.

I have always opposed handing unions exclusive control or basically state sponsoring them to gain even more power. If workers want to unionize, they have all the rights and tools in the world to do so. This bill isn't necessary to force union votes.

[TNF]

Even with all the rights accorded to them, some employers are going to break the law and make it hard for workers to unionize. This avoids that entirely by making sure that votes are held, whether the employers like it or not, and they've got next to no input in it. This bill would truly make the right to organize a union one that is fully protected under the law because it would give unions real equality with employers by giving them a chance at forming every single year with state aid. The state already makes it possible for corporations to form and aids them with charters and grants; why should it not to the same for labor unions?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Then what was the purpose of the Employee Non-Interference thing I linked above. Wasn't that suppose to avoid such disruptive actions?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Then what was the purpose of the Employee Non-Interference thing I linked above. Wasn't that suppose to avoid such disruptive actions?

From my understanding, it was. I echoed the same concerns with that I am echoing now, in that I want to keep "collective bargaining" alive and well and have it fair for both sides, instead of handing power of to one side and making them at the mercy of others.

If anything, I have remained consistent here.

[TNF]

The idea that, even with state recognition of labor unions, labor and capital are "equal" in terms of power relations is patently absurd. Can labor move whole industries overseas, hire and fire, or make decisions on investment?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

The idea that, even with state recognition of labor unions, labor and capital are "equal" in terms of power relations is patently absurd. Can labor move whole industries overseas, hire and fire, or make decisions on investment?

No, but that's not the labor's job now, is it?

We have management for a reason. Nothing would ever get done if every single employee was making decisions, nor do many employees want to make management decisions like that. Imagine the inefficiency!

[TNF]

The idea that, even with state recognition of labor unions, labor and capital are "equal" in terms of power relations is patently absurd. Can labor move whole industries overseas, hire and fire, or make decisions on investment?

No, but that's not the labor's job now, is it?

We have management for a reason. Nothing would ever get done if every single employee was making decisions, nor do many employees want to make management decisions like that. Imagine the inefficiency!

It should be labor's job.

Managers are parasites that should be ultimately replaced by elected workers' councils.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The thing is that labor is merely one of the factors of production and managements job is combine them all into a successful enterprise. I thought your problem was with Capital, how does shooting the one who puts the puzzle pieces together acheive the desired aim?

[TNF]

The thing is that labor is merely one of the factors of production and managements job is combine them all into a successful enterprise. I thought your problem was with Capital, how does shooting the one who puts the puzzle pieces together acheive the desired aim?

Management is fine provided that it is democratically elected and it is accountable to the workers. Otherwise it's a police functionary of Capital.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Is that inherently going to be case in any for-profit enterprise though? In a non-profit or cooperative entity, it would necessarily be reversed and as you prefer it.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Is that inherently going to be case in any for-profit enterprise though? In a non-profit or cooperative entity, it would necessarily be reversed and as you prefer it.

You should know by now that the idea of profit is near anathema to our Midwestern colleague.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Yes, we all know TNF is a commie that wants to nationalize all industry, so I'm not sure why we are lecturing to him about management and profits.