SENATE BILL: Income Tax Reform Act of 2014 (Failed)

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Right, as I said, these rates and deductions are debatable. I want to broaden the base and lower overall rates while eliminating loopholes, but since this original draft seems to be more regressive, I think it would be fine to edit them slightly so we can achieve the end goal.

[Cincinnatus]

Gentleman, this bill is our starting point.  Duke and I fully expect this bill will be different by the time a final vote is presented.  However, with five empty slots two days ago, and nothing to introduce except TNF bills, no offense, at least we're debating something. 

Let's get word from our GM, and take into account our already extensive programs and try and understand where we are.  Does everyone here even fully understand the laws that we've passed that are relevant?

Oh, and I'm removing TNF's amendment, for the record. 

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Gentleman, this bill is our starting point.  Duke and I fully expect this bill will be different by the time a final vote is presented.  However, with five empty slots two days ago, and nothing to introduce except TNF bills, no offense, at least we're debating something. 

Let's get word from our GM, and take into account our already extensive programs and try and understand where we are.  Does everyone here even fully understand the laws that we've passed that are relevant?

Oh, and I'm removing TNF's amendment, for the record. 

I think most of the complications of the tax code we've created by legislation, as opposed to adopted from US, are in the form of tax credits.  I think I listed the ones we had at one point when I was GM, though we've made more since then I'm sure.

[President Tyrion]

Are we removing deductions for dependents?

[TNF]

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2. All income tax deductions are null and void except for the deduction on charitable donations. The taxpayer shall pay the prescribed rate for his or her income listed in clause A above.
[/quote]

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Are we removing deductions for dependents?

The goal here was to simplify our code, so yes. But that may have unintended consequences. I am up front about haven't given any deep thought to this. I am only concerned about the bar exam in my life right now.

But hey, I introduced this to have a debate. Have your seen how empty our queue is recently?

[President Tyrion]

Are we removing deductions for dependents?

The goal here was to simplify our code, so yes. But that may have unintended consequences. I am up front about haven't given any deep thought to this. I am only concerned about the bar exam in my life right now.

But hey, I introduced this to have a debate. Have your seen how empty our queue is recently?

True, the queue is indeed empty.

I don't think removing deductions for dependents is a fair trade-off for whatever gains we might make by simplifying the tax code.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Why don't we compile a list of all the deductions we presently have and how much they cost for starters? Remember that we are scaling back the home mortgate deduction already to pay for a reduction in the healthcare payroll tax.

We can then look at how much can be gained by their removal, means testing etc etc.


Then once you have that number you can reduce the rates by that amount?

I would like to simplify the code too and maybe reduce the number of brackets as well as the knock the top rate down to at most 55%.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

True, the queue is indeed empty.

Oh but you are mistaken, it takes sixteen weeks for a new Senator to get a bill on the floor surely.

If I had a good eight hour stretch on a Saturday morning that would change, but when you don't get to sleep until two and get up at five, you begin to run low by around noon.

[President Tyrion]

Here is what the interwebs says our current tax code supports with respect to personal itemized deductions:

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And, of course, those are just itemized deductions. There are also standardized deductions, which, IMO, should definitely not be touched.

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Which ones would we like to keep, and which ones would we like to cut?

[DC Al Fine]

At minimum, we should keep deductions for: expenses incurred to earn income, and deductions to avoid double taxation. It's fundamentally unfair to tax "income" that is ultimately spent doing one's job. Likewise it is unfair to tax income that has already been taxed.

Under the rules I outlined above, we'd keep deductions for:

• Classroom Expense
• Home Office
• IRA/li]
  
  • Investment Interest Expense
  • Investment Expense
  • Moving Expense
  • Self-Employment Tax
  
  Also does receiving alimony count as taxable income? If so, Alimony Paid should be a deduction as well.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Is that from real lfie or is that altered to reflect Atlasian policies?

[President Tyrion]

Is that from real lfie or is that altered to reflect Atlasian policies?

Completely from real life. I didn't alter it at all. I just tried to provide the basis for discussion, so we can move on from that to change to our Atlasian needs.

At minimum, we should keep deductions for: expenses incurred to earn income, and deductions to avoid double taxation. It's fundamentally unfair to tax "income" that is ultimately spent doing one's job. Likewise it is unfair to tax income that has already been taxed.

Under the rules I outlined above, we'd keep deductions for:

• Classroom Expense
• Home Office
• IRA

• Investment Interest Expense
• Investment Expense
• Moving Expense
• Self-Employment Tax

Also does receiving alimony count as taxable income? If so, Alimony Paid should be a deduction as well.

Here's the relevant law on alimony:

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That, I believe, should not change.

DC, I agree with all of your deductions, but we should certainly not cut the deductions for State and Regional Taxes, since those count under double taxation.

Looking things over, I'm hard pressed to find things we should definitely axe. Maybe we should work backwards and look for deductions we definitely don't want to continue. [/list]

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well we already altered the mortgage interest deduction in that bill in the previous Senate.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=189543.100

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

At this time, if we don't eliminate many deductions, we really can't afford to cut our income taxes, unfortunately. And of course, I won't push through a tax cut we cannot afford even though I still find a 60% top bracket as being too high.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

That is why we should start first with finding out what deductions can be cut/limited/means-tested first?


We need to review them and decide which ones we are comfortable with removing nad then seeing how much of a rate cut that will then afford us.


Tyrion gave a nice RL list but now we need to knwo whicho f those are in effect here and how much they cost. A good place to start would be last years budget.

[Cincinnatus]

I'm having a busy week, but I'm going to try and take some time within the next couple days to look over recent budgets and see what's relevant here.  Any other progress, independent or otherwise, would be great.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I have been wanting to discuss this with thr President in detail, but we seem to never be on at the same time this past few days and thus we catch each other's messages when the other is off.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I have been wanting to discuss this with thr President in detail, but we seem to never be on at the same time this past few days and thus we catch each other's messages when the other is off.

I'm always around during the day, which I know isn't always the case for you.

Since bar study began, I really haven't left my house or my computer all that often.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I am usually on for short periods of time in the evenings, though I have been trying unsuccessfully to get on as early as five. That didn't happen today because we were suppose to go on a trip, that was then cancelled. Then there is usually a long period on Saturday Morning of course.

[President Tyrion]

We can make the language vague enough to remove deductions pertaining to certain subjects. If that had already been done previously, there's no harm in doubling up.

It's hard to be perfect with the byzantine statute we have, after all.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I can live with that. We also need to adjust the rates so they aren't as unprogressive as they turned out to be in the first draft.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We can make the language vague enough to remove deductions pertaining to certain subjects. If that had already been done previously, there's no harm in doubling up.

It's hard to be perfect with the byzantine statute we have, after all.

I am not sure I understand. Also, how would the numbers be crunched or could they?

[President Tyrion]

We can make the language vague enough to remove deductions pertaining to certain subjects. If that had already been done previously, there's no harm in doubling up.

It's hard to be perfect with the byzantine statute we have, after all.

I am not sure I understand. Also, how would the numbers be crunched or could they?

I think they're going to be pretty impossible.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I am confused still, could you give like an example of the strcuture you have mind?