Juan Carlos calls it a day

[Simfan34]

I think it's time Elizabeth did the same.

It would be out of character. It would also be generally undesirable until, say, 2025.

I am not saying he brought democracy to a people with no desire or concept of democracy. He simply did the right thing. But how many leaders have done the right thing? The number of autocrats who voluntarily elected to reduce their powers in favour of more democratic government can be counted on one hand, maybe two.

King John, one of the Frederiks in Denmark, Juan Carlos...

King John of Magna Carta fame? The Magna Carta was a concession prompted by a noble revolt, was it not?

[Silent Hunter]

It would be... remember, she lived through the abdication of her uncle (Edward VIII) and saw what the impact of being thrust onto the throne with no real preparation did to her father's health.

[ag]

You seem to believe that Juan Carlos had magic powers and did all the hard work.

He did a lot of the hard work. While preserving a monarchy the way Franco planned for was not possible, many different things could have happened. A civil war - or a few of those. An unstable coup-prone Latin quasi-democracy. Putin-style caudillismo.  That Spain is a modern democracy today was far from pre-ordained. And Juan Carlos actively participated in making it what it is. He was not alone, of course. But he had a major role that hardly anybody else could have performed.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I think it's time Elizabeth did the same.

Isn't the future King George VII still rather unpopular in the UK?

Do you mean Charles? Nah, I don't think he's not that unpopular anymore, even if he occasionally says some questionable stuff...

He's easily the weakest link in the current succession line. I feel bad for the guy, quite frankly - an extremely messed up childhood (thanks Philip), constant mockery and a tortured personal life. Although I'm ambivalent towards the monarchy I often feel a strange feeling of pathos towards its constituent members. Ludicrous, I know.

I can't find the poll, but I'm pretty sure a large majority support the monarchy, but want it to skip a generation upon Brenda's passing. Which seems to me like, err, they don't really understand the monarchy?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I am not saying he brought democracy to a people with no desire or concept of democracy. He simply did the right thing. But how many leaders have done the right thing? The number of autocrats who voluntary elected to reduce their powers in favour of more democratic government can be counted on one hand, maybe two.

There's the King of Bhutan. But yes, it's pretty rare.

[Simfan34]

Sometimes I think it might be better if monarchies did that, skipped every other generation. Long reigns seem to do better service to the institution, and the glamour of a young monarch always provides a boost in popularity.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

It's the right decision at this juncture, and I might add one of which I think Juan Carlos's father would wholeheartedly approve.

I think it's time Elizabeth did the same.

Isn't the future King George VII still rather unpopular in the UK?

Do you mean Charles? Nah, I don't think he's not that unpopular anymore, even if he occasionally says some questionable stuff...

Yeah, I meant Charles. On the other hand, the future George VIII is probably very popular in Britain right now.

Do you mean William? William, unlike his father and son, doesn't actually have 'George' anywhere in his given name and would thus probably not take it as his name as king.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I think it's time Elizabeth did the same.

Isn't the future King George VII still rather unpopular in the UK?

Do you mean Charles? Nah, I don't think he's not that unpopular anymore, even if he occasionally says some questionable stuff...

Yeah, I meant Charles. On the other hand, the future George VIII is probably very popular in Britain right now.

Do you mean William? William, unlike his father and son, doesn't actually have 'George' anywhere in his given name and would thus probably not take it as his name as king.

This time, I meant the baby . I have a feeling that Prince William will be William V, since the first four were decent monarchs, unlike the first two Charles. Sorry my posts are confusing everyone, I'm not wording anything right.

[Meursault]

The televangelist Jack van Impe promised me in 1993's Revelation Revealed that Juan Carlos was the Antichrist.

I'm upset he isn't.

[Velasco]

You seem to believe that Juan Carlos had magic powers and did all the hard work.

He did a lot of the hard work. While preserving a monarchy the way Franco planned for was not possible, many different things could have happened. A civil war - or a few of those. An unstable coup-prone Latin quasi-democracy. Putin-style caudillismo.  That Spain is a modern democracy today was far from pre-ordained. And Juan Carlos actively participated in making it what it is. He was not alone, of course. But he had a major role that hardly anybody else could have performed.

Actually, I don't question his major role and his active involvement in the events after the death of Franco. Also, there is the fact that many people feared a new civil war in that time, because the openness that society was demanding was in frontal opposition with the Franco's old guard (called then 'the bunker'). Alternatives belong to counterfactual history and I'm not a big fan of it but, yes, many worse things could have happened. However and as you say, he wasn't alone and some sugarcoated and mythologizing narrative might make believe that, without the active collaboration of other people -inside and outside his inner circle- and the civil society, he would have 'brought' democracy to us like a grant. He deserves recognition, I have no doubt about it. I think that narrative I referred to, highly focused on the king and his inner circle, has contributed to one of the main criticisms against the Transition, the so-called 'Elite Pact'. There are others, such us the 'Oblivion Pact'. The voluntary amnesia on the Spain's recent past made some sense in the first years of the Spanish Transition, but it has lasted too long. Now we have a country besieged by multiple crisis (economic, territorial, moral, etc) with its main institutions exhausted (including monarchy), invaded by pessimism and in need of a change of direction. I would not like to be in Felipe's shoes, because he has a terribly complex challenge in front of him.

[Niemeyerite]

monstrosity

F[inks] you, you filthy republican. Juan Carlos has been far more "useful" to Spain in terms of job creation, diplomacy, and international reputation than any washed-up politician President would ever be. Africa begins at the Pyrenees no longer, thanks to him.

Shhh. Visit Spain first and then we'll talk about these issues. Being useful isn't enough to be a King. He did the right thing (because he had to) in the 70s and 80s, that for sure. But we haven't had the opportunity to oust him when he started being useless, expensive and polemic (a King should never be polemic).

What did he do in terms of job creation? And everything he did for international reputation was lost after the Urdangarin scandal, the elephant scandal, and, yes, the "Por qué no te callas?" among Latin American countries...

When this is how we, Spaniards, "like" our Monarchy, it doesn't have legitimacy. In a Republic, when the President loses his legitimacy, you can vote him out. There you have the difference

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

It's the right decision at this juncture, and I might add one of which I think Juan Carlos's father would wholeheartedly approve.

I think it's time Elizabeth did the same.

Isn't the future King George VII still rather unpopular in the UK?

Do you mean Charles? Nah, I don't think he's not that unpopular anymore, even if he occasionally says some questionable stuff...

Yeah, I meant Charles. On the other hand, the future George VIII is probably very popular in Britain right now.

Do you mean William? William, unlike his father and son, doesn't actually have 'George' anywhere in his given name and would thus probably not take it as his name as king.

From what it sounds like, Charles might be flimsy enough to abdicate in favor of his son. He doesn't seem at all happy with the attention he already gets as Prince of Wales -- as King, it'd be far worse.

[StateBoiler]

monstrosity

F[inks] you, you filthy republican. Juan Carlos has been far more "useful" to Spain in terms of job creation, diplomacy, and international reputation than any washed-up politician President would ever be. Africa begins at the Pyrenees no longer, thanks to him.

Shhh. Visit Spain first and then we'll talk about these issues. Being useful isn't enough to be a King. He did the right thing (because he had to) in the 70s and 80s, that for sure. But we haven't had the opportunity to oust him when he started being useless, expensive and polemic (a King should never be polemic).

What did he do in terms of job creation? And everything he did for international reputation was lost after the Urdangarin scandal, the elephant scandal, and, yes, the "Por qué no te callas?" among Latin American countries...

When this is how we, Spaniards, "like" our Monarchy, it doesn't have legitimacy. In a Republic, when the President loses his legitimacy, you can vote him out. There you have the difference

Meanwhile Spain has been ran into the ground by its politicians and there's a potential for civil conflict with this Catalonian independence referendum.

Voters in democracies get the governments they deserve. Focusing on a powerless royal is a red herring.

[Velasco]

I don't think that I deserve the government we have. Perhaps, if Felipe was useful in mediation and building bridges between Catalonia and the rest of Spain, I'd remain neutral on monarchy. It looks a nearly impossible task in this moment. On the other hand, the independence movement is peaceful and it's silly to think that we are on the verge of a civil war. Catalonia is not Crimea, don't you know? However, economic consequences of secession might be terrible in both sides and the political and territorial stability of what would remain of Spain might be in distress. Anyway, saying "no" to a referendum is not a solution. I don't like this one called on November 9 because questions are tricky, but some day Catalans will have to be asked on what the hell they want to be. Is it clear enough?

[politicus]

Catalonia is not Crimea, don't you know? However, economic consequences of secession might be terrible in both sides and the political and territorial stability of what would remain of Spain might be in distress.

Why would the economic consequences be terrible? Both states would still be in the EU with free movement of goods and persons.

[Velasco]

Why would the economic consequences be terrible? Both states would still be in the EU with free movement of goods and persons.

That's what independence supporters say, but it's only feasible in the case of a friendly separation. The Spanish government considers that the referendum called in Catalonia is illegal and won't accept the results whatever they are. An unilateral secession would have the consequence that Spain will put a veto on Catalonia's admission. On the other hand, even Scotland will have to wait some years before being readmitted, if I'm not wrong. As for Spain, Catalonia represents 20% of the GDP and a good share of the industrial production. Also, the independence of Catalonia would likely be followed by the Basque Country or, at least, by increasing demands from this and other regions. The only way out is negotiation, constitutional reform and a referendum agreed between Spanish and Catalan governments.

[Simfan34]

That match did not help anything.

[StateBoiler]

Catalonia is not Crimea, don't you know? However, economic consequences of secession might be terrible in both sides and the political and territorial stability of what would remain of Spain might be in distress.

Why would the economic consequences be terrible? Both states would still be in the EU with free movement of goods and persons.

Catalonia would not be per the muddled EU response to the issue because it requires unanimity from existing members, of which Spain is one.

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Which Spain refuse to negotiate and Catalonia are pressing forward.

Meanwhile:

"@Edward_hugh·
 Real wages have been falling in Spain now since at least mid 2011. #deflation pic.twitter.com/nAnYKiVKKW"