selective service

[angus]

I hadn't thought about this in years, but I was at a post office today and I happened to notice a selective service form in the outer room.  I immediately thought, "do they still do this?" 

Apparently they do.  There's even a website you can visit to see if you are registered.  I registered on 15 March 1985, according to the website.  I didn't remember the date, but I do remember going to a post office with my friend Daniel whose birthday was about a week before mine and we did it together. 

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

No.  It did not exist when it would have been my time to sign up.

[angus]

I wondered about that.  I remember thinking that it was fairly new when I was a teenager, but then I looked it up and saw that it dates to 1917, but then it went away for a while.  Then they started it again in 1980, so if you were born in the late 50s it doesn't apply to you.

Apparently about 92% of those required do it.  My brother should have, but he was in the 8%.  I remember telling him at the time that he could be denied a pell grant and certain other perks but his attitude was "Fuck 'em"  He's pretty anti-everything, so this fits in his character.  It's not like he ever wanted a government job or federal student aid anyway. 

I just noticed that thing today at the PO and I started thinking about it.  My son will have to do this if he wants to be eligible for certain things.  I'm not sure I like the idea of it.  I didn't mind when it was me, but I'm fairly uncomfortable with the idea of my son having to do that.

[TNF]

Yes, although were I called up I would not serve.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yes, although were I called up I would not serve.

Though it matters not as I'm too old to be called up now.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Yes; the letter came the day after I turned 18. Literally, the next day.

[angus]

Yes, although were I called up I would not serve.

Then what's the point?

I suspect a good many young men feel like you do.  I'm not sure how I felt back when I was 18.  Probably didn't give a shit because I was pretty self-destructive back then, but as a father I have strong feelings against this.  And, like you, I'm hypocritical.  On the one hand, I'd probably tell the boy to do it just in case he ever wants to get a government job--I had a very lucrative government position for three years, and I know I would not have been eligible for it had I not registered--on the other hand, I do believe I'd spend every last cent I have and break any law to keep him out of harm's way.  This, in fact, is why I put this thread in the debate section.  I was hoping to generate some debate, and hoping that somewhere some politician notices it.

We pride ourselves on the fact that we have an all volunteer military, and rightly so.  But the existence of the selective service registrations betrays our national paranoia and our hypocrisy.

[TNF]

Yes, although were I called up I would not serve.

Then what's the point?

I suspect a good many young men feel like you do.  I'm not sure how I felt back when I was 18.  Probably didn't give a shit because I was pretty self-destructive back then, but as a father I have strong feelings against this.  And, like you, I'm hypocritical.  On the one hand, I'd probably tell the boy to do it just in case he ever wants to get a government job--I had a very lucrative government position for three years, and I know I would not have been eligible for it had I not registered--on the other hand, I do believe I'd spend every last cent I have and break any law to keep him out of harm's way.  This, in fact, is why I put this thread in the debate section.  I was hoping to generate some debate, and hoping that somewhere some politician notices it.

We pride ourselves on the fact that we have an all volunteer military, and rightly so.  But the existence of the selective service registrations betrays our national paranoia and our hypocrisy.

In my own case, it's largely because I didn't have any solid opinions on the matter five years ago when I registered. Since then I have pretty well decided that I would take up arms in the service of this government under any circumstances, which would probably mean trying to claim CO status if called up or just biting the bullet and going to jail for resisting if that didn't work.

[angus]

Marine, what is that button on your body armor?

A peace symbol, sir.

Where'd you get it?

I don't remember, sir.

What is that you've got written on your helmet?

"Born to Kill", sir.

You write "Born to Kill" on your helmet and you wear a peace button. What's that supposed to be, some kind of sick joke?

No, sir.

You'd better get your head and your ass wired together, or I will take a giant shit on you.

Yes, sir.

Now answer my question or you'll be standing tall before the man.

I think I was trying to suggest something about the duality of man, sir.

The what??

The duality of man. The Jungian thing, sir.

Whose side are you on, son?

Our side, sir.

Don't you love your country?

Yes, sir.

Then how about getting with the program? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?

Yes, sir.

Son, all I've ever asked of my marines is that they obey my orders as they would the word of God. We are here to help the Vietnamese, because inside every gook there is an American trying to get out.  It's a hardball world, son.  We've gotta keep our heads until this peace craze blows over.

Aye-aye, sir.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Since then I have pretty well decided that I would take up arms in the service of this government under any circumstances

Assuming this is a typo, does this mean literally any reasonable (i.e. within the realm of possibility) circumstance?

[IceSpear]

Yes. It was required for financial aid in college.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Yes. It was required for financial aid in college.

^ Yup.  Same for me. 

[TNF]

Since then I have pretty well decided that I would take up arms in the service of this government under any circumstances

Assuming this is a typo, does this mean literally any reasonable (i.e. within the realm of possibility) circumstance?

That should say not take up arms, my apologies. And no, under no circumstances could I see myself serving as a member of the armed forces for the United States of America.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Yes, although were I called up I would not serve.

[angus]

That should say not take up arms, my apologies.

I understood what you meant to type.

Well, I can imagine circumstances under which I would take up arms in defense of my country, but I'm having a very hard time trying to imagine any in which I'd give my blessings to fight to the members of my immediate family. 

I don't think you have anything to worry about though, since the 2015 Army budget calls for downsizing from 570 thousand to 450 thousand troops by 2019.  The Navy won't get enough money to maintain its current fleet of vessels either.  Also, the two wars we just finished cost the American people $4 trillion and killed nearly 6000 US soldiers and wounded over 50000, so I don't think there will be a strong appetite any time soon for another war.   

Still, I don't like the selective service registration requirement.
 

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

Yes. It was required for financial aid in college.

^ Yup.  Same for me. 

[Redalgo]

Yes, signing up was a pre-requisite of getting a state identification card in Montana.

If the draft were ever reinstated I would be ineligible to claim conscientious objection because I am not a pacifist when it comes to every war scenario. Last I heard the government does not let people resist conscription for the duration of only a particular conflict. Since I would refuse to serve either in a military or civilian capacity I would likely either be sent to prison or a forced labour camp depending on what the prevailing political landscape is at the time. Or maybe I have some kind of physical or psychological quirk that could make me ineligible to serve? Not sure.

On the other hand, if it were a war I felt passionately about in support of "our" side there is a real chance that I would actively seek to become an officer in the United States Navy.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Yes, although were I called up I would not serve.

[TJ in Oregon]

Yes and if called I would serve. I can't imagine that happening though; I've got to be more likely to win the lottery at this point than get drafted. Draft registration is a pointless formality at this point.

[angus]

I would likely either be sent to prison or a forced labour camp depending on what the prevailing political landscape is at the time.

Nah, they'd spot your spelling of labor pretty quickly and take you for a foreign commie and deport your sorry ass back to Lebanon or Canada or wherever.  Maybe you and four others would get exchanged for some AWOL schmuck whose daddy started speaking Canadian and growing a moose in his basement.  

[Nhoj]

Back when I tried registering i filled it all out, only to find that the state had already automatically registered me.

[angus]

It seems like i attempted to register to find out the state had already automatically registered me.

Some do.  You may live in a state that does.  I looked into all this a few days ago after I saw the form at the PO.  There are also states that require it if you want a driver's license.  Pennsylvania doesn't request or require any of it, but your state may.  Moreover, it may be one of those that automatically registers you if you're a male and decide to register to vote, obtain a state driver's licence, or engage in other state transaction. 

TJ says there's no point in the registration.  I sometimes feel the same way, but if there really is no point, then it comes as another unnecessary bureaucracy.  Mostly I suspect that the government does have a point, but that it is a point with which I disagree. 

[Nhoj]

Could be because I registered to vote or have a drivers license. You do need a Selective Service number to qualify for FAFSA.

[TJ in Oregon]

TJ says there's no point in the registration.  I sometimes feel the same way, but if there really is no point, then it comes as another unnecessary bureaucracy.  Mostly I suspect that the government does have a point, but that it is a point with which I disagree. 

The government does have a point in that they can theoretically draft me if World War III breaks out and for some unforeseen reason requires a massive number of previously untrained infantry, or if by some other set of crazy circumstances the draft would actually become politically favorable to enact. Both them have what I think is a vanishingly small probability of happening. But I don't think that's really why we have the draft; we have it because it used to have a purpose and by institutional inertia remained. People have used the WWIII argument I described as a reason to keep it nominally in place. But it really is nominal at this point.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Selective Service really does nothing in regards to assisting in the event of a possible draft, considering that basically no one fills the requirement of informing the office of any changes in address. But that really doesn't matter considering the tons of other ways of tracking that in the electronic era. It's a completely pointless office and waste of money. Shame Ron Paul's calls for abolition didn't get more traction.