POLL re gay marriage

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

In practice, it almost never matters in how I vote.  If someone opposes gay marriage, usually they're a Republican and I wouldn't vote for them anyway.  

The only primary with a pro-SSM candidate vs. an anti-SSM candidate I can remember was the US House Primary in Central Brooklyn between Charles Barron and Hakeem Jeffries.  I had enough reasons not to vote for racist, far-left Charles Barron, but his anti-SSM position was another indicator of how terrible he was.

Charles Barron is racist, what? Unless you think that veiled or not so veiled antisemitism constitutes racism (which is fair), that statement has no basis in reality.

I'd vote for an anti-marriage equality Democrat over a pro-marriage equality Republican but I'd only consider an anti-marriage equality Democrat in a primary if they were running against a centrist Democrat and had excellent credentials on economic issues. For example: if Brendan Boyle was against gay marriage and his only opponent was Margolies, I'd vote for him without hesitation.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

In practice, it almost never matters in how I vote.  If someone opposes gay marriage, usually they're a Republican and I wouldn't vote for them anyway.  

The only primary with a pro-SSM candidate vs. an anti-SSM candidate I can remember was the US House Primary in Central Brooklyn between Charles Barron and Hakeem Jeffries.  I had enough reasons not to vote for racist, far-left Charles Barron, but his anti-SSM position was another indicator of how terrible he was.

Charles Barron is racist, what? Unless you think that veiled or not so veiled antisemitism constitutes racism (which is fair), that statement has no basis in reality.

I'd vote for an anti-marriage equality Democrat over a pro-marriage equality Republican but I'd only consider an anti-marriage equality Democrat in a primary if they were running against a centrist Democrat and had excellent credentials on economic issues. For example: if Brendan Boyle was against gay marriage and his only opponent was Margolies, I'd vote for him without hesitation.

Charles Barron hates Jewish people and white people.  Both are forms of racism.  I guess the counter would be that Charles Barron is just a race-baiting buffoon who plays that angle for politics.  I think he's probably both racist and a race-baiting buffoon.  

What statements has Charles Barron made that show that he hates white people? Also, what's wrong with Black politicians appealing to largely Black constituencies by acknowledging the existence of racism and the disproportionate amounts of power held by white America? How is that race baiting?

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

In practice, it almost never matters in how I vote.  If someone opposes gay marriage, usually they're a Republican and I wouldn't vote for them anyway.  

The only primary with a pro-SSM candidate vs. an anti-SSM candidate I can remember was the US House Primary in Central Brooklyn between Charles Barron and Hakeem Jeffries.  I had enough reasons not to vote for racist, far-left Charles Barron, but his anti-SSM position was another indicator of how terrible he was.

Charles Barron is racist, what? Unless you think that veiled or not so veiled antisemitism constitutes racism (which is fair), that statement has no basis in reality.

I'd vote for an anti-marriage equality Democrat over a pro-marriage equality Republican but I'd only consider an anti-marriage equality Democrat in a primary if they were running against a centrist Democrat and had excellent credentials on economic issues. For example: if Brendan Boyle was against gay marriage and his only opponent was Margolies, I'd vote for him without hesitation.

Charles Barron hates Jewish people and white people.  Both are forms of racism.  I guess the counter would be that Charles Barron is just a race-baiting buffoon who plays that angle for politics.  I think he's probably both racist and a race-baiting buffoon.  

What statements has Charles Barron made that show that he hates white people? Also, what's wrong with Black politicians appealing to largely Black constituencies by acknowledging the existence of racism and the disproportionate amounts of power held by white America? How is that race baiting?

City Council people are supposed to work for their constituents.  What Charles Barron did was scream about renaming streets after black panthers and loving Robert Mugabe, instead of doing his job.   I think his chief of staff actually said that other city council members should be assassinated if they didn't support renaming a street after a black panther.  That's being a buffoon who ignores his constituents actual needs and distracts people by turning everything into a white vs. black issue.  That's what race baiting is.  

As far as proof that he's a racist, here's one specific incident.  He said he wanted to slap random white people because he was angry about reparations.  Assaulting people because they're a specific race is pretty much the definition of racist, right?

I agree with everything you've said about race baiting but I strongly disagree with the notion that his statement on slapping white people is racist. It is certainly expressing antipathy towards white people but hatred towards white people in that context is understandable. The idea of reparations is ridiculous but the general sentiment that white people are ignorant about race relations is rational and disliking them as a group, especially if you have little contact with white people outside of interactions regarding race relations or politics, for this reason is warranted and isn't racist. It's actually absurd to think that it's racist because it isn't predicated on some kind of essentialized trait or generalized behavior but rather an empirical truth.



Barron's statement is unfair to whites who believe in racial equality but honestly, who cares? Charles Barron isn't actually going to slap white people. He clearly meant it as a metaphorical device in the vein of the phrase "x should have some sense slapped into him" and his ideas about reparations still aren't going to be taken seriously by his own community.

Racial resentment isn't racism.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I'm not saying that being racist against white people is a significant problem.  I say this as someone who was called a cracker by some dude on the street the other day. 

I've experienced what it's like to like as a white person in a 85% black neighborhood.  I can say, there is practically no racism against whites on the part of black people in America.  I know what being discriminated against is, because I'm gay.  White people are not victims of discrimination and I would never say that.  So, I can see the aversion to saying Charles Barron is racist.  It's not the same as white on black racism.  I actually think the only victims of Charles Barron's racism are black people who get this dog and pony show about Robert Mugabe and black power instead of actual representation for their community.

Sorry for grilling you about this. I think that was pretty undeserved in retrospect.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I agree with everything you've said about race baiting but I strongly disagree with the notion that his statement on slapping white people is racist. It is certainly expressing antipathy towards white people but hatred towards white people in that context is understandable. The idea of reparations is ridiculous but the general sentiment that white people are ignorant about race relations is rational and disliking them as a group, especially if you have little contact with white people outside of interactions regarding race relations or politics, for this reason is warranted and isn't racist. It's actually absurd to think that it's racist because it isn't predicated on some kind of essentialized trait or generalized behavior but rather an empirical truth.

Disliking people b/c of their race = not racist, and yet I'm a racist for god knows what reason.

This is incoherent.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I agree with everything you've said about race baiting but I strongly disagree with the notion that his statement on slapping white people is racist. It is certainly expressing antipathy towards white people but hatred towards white people in that context is understandable. The idea of reparations is ridiculous but the general sentiment that white people are ignorant about race relations is rational and disliking them as a group, especially if you have little contact with white people outside of interactions regarding race relations or politics, for this reason is warranted and isn't racist. It's actually absurd to think that it's racist because it isn't predicated on some kind of essentialized trait or generalized behavior but rather an empirical truth.

Disliking people b/c of their race = not racist, and yet I'm a racist for god knows what reason.

This is incoherent.

Yes, your standard of defining who or what is racist is incoherent if I qualify but actually hating an entire race of people doesn't.  I don't know how you can say that disliking an entire race of people is warranted and claim that it isn't based on "an essentialized trait or generalized behavior." 

A non-negligible number of Black Americans dislike white people because some of their family members have been killed at the hands of white supremacists, been barred from eating at restaurants, been called degrading names, been racially profiled and denied their civil rights. If that doesn't warrant some degree of resentment, I don't know what does.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I agree with everything you've said about race baiting but I strongly disagree with the notion that his statement on slapping white people is racist. It is certainly expressing antipathy towards white people but hatred towards white people in that context is understandable. The idea of reparations is ridiculous but the general sentiment that white people are ignorant about race relations is rational and disliking them as a group, especially if you have little contact with white people outside of interactions regarding race relations or politics, for this reason is warranted and isn't racist. It's actually absurd to think that it's racist because it isn't predicated on some kind of essentialized trait or generalized behavior but rather an empirical truth.

Disliking people b/c of their race = not racist, and yet I'm a racist for god knows what reason.

This is incoherent.

Yes, your standard of defining who or what is racist is incoherent if I qualify but actually hating an entire race of people doesn't.  I don't know how you can say that disliking an entire race of people is warranted and claim that it isn't based on "an essentialized trait or generalized behavior." 

A non-negligible number of Black Americans dislike white people because some of their family members have been killed at the hands of white supremacists, been barred from eating at restaurants, been called degrading names, been racially profiled and denied their civil rights. If that doesn't warrant some degree of resentment, I don't know what does.

I can certainly see how it is understandable, but that doesn't mean it is warranted, and it is still racism.  It is absolutely based on a generalization against a group of people, and a group of people that are defined as having their essence characterized by their race. 

White Americans are responsible for the existence of racism. This is a fact, not a generalization. White Americans have significant advantages due to their perceived race. This is not a character trait, this is a reality. If you're annoyed by this state of affairs and blame white America for continuing to support a system of racial caste that upholds racial inequity, you're not a racist. White Americans are responsible for racism and deserve the blame and aspersions of those that they've oppressed unless they make significant efforts to change the status quo. 

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

White Americans are responsible for the existence of racism. This is a fact, not a generalization. White Americans have significant advantages due to their perceived race. This is not a character trait, this is a reality. If you're annoyed by this state of affairs and blame white America for continuing to support a system of racial caste that upholds racial inequity, you're not a racist. White Americans are responsible for racism and deserve the blame and aspersions of those that they've oppressed unless they make significant efforts to change the status quo.  

I don't know what definition of "generalization" you could be using here.
Speaking in terms of "White Americans" as acting or being in a particular way is itself a generalization based on race, and extending a concept of race to impute collective guilt is to treat race as a reified object constitutive of a person's most essential being.  

Obviously race is not a reified object constitutive of a person's most essential being. Racism is a socially constructed reality that is perpetuated by white Americans, who are responsible for the lionshare of discrimination against African-Americans. Notice I am not saying that all white people are responsible but that white people are responsible. There's a distinct difference here.

My argument is actually centered on the fact that race is not essential and that it's socially constructed, which is an argument that implies that white America is responsible for racism. As a group, they're ignorant of the present racism that exists all around them and the historic racism responsible for the continued indigence of millions of African-Americans, which they believe is the fault of African-Americans.











Because Black resentment against white Americans is predicated upon collective failure, it is resentment that is amenable to the efforts of individual white Americans who prove that they are responsible for collective injustice and amenable to the potential efforts of the collective. In this sense, anti-White resentment is not a kind of a racism.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I agree with everything you've said about race baiting but I strongly disagree with the notion that his statement on slapping white people is racist. It is certainly expressing antipathy towards white people but hatred towards white people in that context is understandable. The idea of reparations is ridiculous but the general sentiment that white people are ignorant about race relations is rational and disliking them as a group, especially if you have little contact with white people outside of interactions regarding race relations or politics, for this reason is warranted and isn't racist. It's actually absurd to think that it's racist because it isn't predicated on some kind of essentialized trait or generalized behavior but rather an empirical truth.

Disliking people b/c of their race = not racist, and yet I'm a racist for god knows what reason.

This is incoherent.

Yes, your standard of defining who or what is racist is incoherent if I qualify but actually hating an entire race of people doesn't.  I don't know how you can say that disliking an entire race of people is warranted and claim that it isn't based on "an essentialized trait or generalized behavior." 

A non-negligible number of Black Americans dislike white people because some of their family members have been killed at the hands of white supremacists, been barred from eating at restaurants, been called degrading names, been racially profiled and denied their civil rights. If that doesn't warrant some degree of resentment, I don't know what does.

I can certainly see how it is understandable, but that doesn't mean it is warranted, and it is still racism.  It is absolutely based on a generalization against a group of people, and a group of people that are defined as having their essence characterized by their race. 

White Americans are responsible for the existence of racism. This is a fact, not a generalization. White Americans have significant advantages due to their perceived race. This is not a character trait, this is a reality. If you're annoyed by this state of affairs and blame white America for continuing to support a system of racial caste that upholds racial inequity, you're not a racist. White Americans are responsible for racism and deserve the blame and aspersions of those that they've oppressed unless they make significant efforts to change the status quo. 

WTF?

Are you honestly going to dispute this? Unless you think that African-Americans are responsible for the continued existence of racism because of "hip-hop" culture or crime or laziness or whatever, this is absolutely true.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I agree with everything you've said about race baiting but I strongly disagree with the notion that his statement on slapping white people is racist. It is certainly expressing antipathy towards white people but hatred towards white people in that context is understandable. The idea of reparations is ridiculous but the general sentiment that white people are ignorant about race relations is rational and disliking them as a group, especially if you have little contact with white people outside of interactions regarding race relations or politics, for this reason is warranted and isn't racist. It's actually absurd to think that it's racist because it isn't predicated on some kind of essentialized trait or generalized behavior but rather an empirical truth.

Disliking people b/c of their race = not racist, and yet I'm a racist for god knows what reason.

This is incoherent.

Yes, your standard of defining who or what is racist is incoherent if I qualify but actually hating an entire race of people doesn't.  I don't know how you can say that disliking an entire race of people is warranted and claim that it isn't based on "an essentialized trait or generalized behavior." 

A non-negligible number of Black Americans dislike white people because some of their family members have been killed at the hands of white supremacists, been barred from eating at restaurants, been called degrading names, been racially profiled and denied their civil rights. If that doesn't warrant some degree of resentment, I don't know what does.

I can certainly see how it is understandable, but that doesn't mean it is warranted, and it is still racism.  It is absolutely based on a generalization against a group of people, and a group of people that are defined as having their essence characterized by their race. 

White Americans are responsible for the existence of racism. This is a fact, not a generalization. White Americans have significant advantages due to their perceived race. This is not a character trait, this is a reality. If you're annoyed by this state of affairs and blame white America for continuing to support a system of racial caste that upholds racial inequity, you're not a racist. White Americans are responsible for racism and deserve the blame and aspersions of those that they've oppressed unless they make significant efforts to change the status quo. 

WTF?

Are you honestly going to dispute this? Unless you think that African-Americans are responsible for the continued existence of racism because of "hip-hop" culture or crime or laziness or whatever, this is absolutely true.

Yes, I honestly am going to dispute this.

Wanna know why? Because white people didn't "invent" racism. Racism can come from anyone of any race. People with different features have discriminated against each other across the world since I don't even know when. Racism has existed in many forms in many places before white people showed up. You don't need white people for racism to exist. Yeah, historically we focus very heavily on whites being racist, but that doesn't mean they created it, nor are they solely responsible for perpetuating it. That's not a fact.

Anyways, this is about gay marriage, not how evil white people are. Go create a new thread or something.

Your ignorance is showing. Race is a modern concept that emerged out of colonialism and became solidified with Darwinism. It was not present in classical civilizations or medieval principalities. The Romans, Persians and Greeks possessed slaves of all phenotypes. Discrimination that appears on first glance to be similar to racism existed: the caste system in India, the destruction of indigenous peoples across Asia, Arab enslavement of Blacks. Yet none of these forms of oppression can be described as racist because they were justified on grounds outside of race.

The Japanese appropriated the concept of race as they modernized just as they appropriated liberalism. It was a foreign idea.

w/e, gay marriage is boring.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Sorry, what is this thread about now...?

How white people are the scum of the earth.

Your reading comprehension is limited, friend.