Israel responds to new Palestinian gov. with settlement expansions

[Miles]

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[Meursault]

"proper Zionist response"

I know totalitarian rhetoric when I see it.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I will again shill my theory that Israel will align itself with Russia in the coming years.

[Famous Mortimer]

At this point, the Israeli response to everything is settlement expansion.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

I will again shill my theory that Israel will align itself with Russia in the coming years.

That would surprise me. Putin has his eyes on Tamar and Leviathan, and he doesn't want to buy it. It's in his best interests to help the Arab states and attempt to push the clock towards doomsday, then swoop in and claim the wreckage.

Assuming anyone more favorable to Israel than Obama (and this includes Clinton, Warren, Biden, or most other Democrats) takes office in 2.5 years, the status quo will likely resume.

As for the thread itself, no one here could seriously think that Hamas being legitimized as the Palestinian government wouldn't have massive repercussions. Israel has basically established this as a red line.

[Meursault]

So do you post in every thread on Israel, or just the ones critical of it?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

So do you post in every thread on Israel, or just the ones critical of it?

I post where I damn well please.

[Meursault]

I dunno, Goldfarb. It seems the only thing that pleases you is white knighting for Israel.

=/

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

I dunno, Goldfarb. It seems the only thing that pleases you is white knighting for Israel.

=/

Wow, you made fun of my obviously Jewish name! Kudos!

I post in plenty of other threads. But it seems like Israel needs a bit of white knighting, given how many enemies it has in these quarters. A little balance is nothing to fear, no?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I will again shill my theory that Israel will align itself with Russia in the coming years.

That would surprise me. Putin has his eyes on Tamar and Leviathan, and he doesn't want to buy it. It's in his best interests to help the Arab states and attempt to push the clock towards doomsday, then swoop in and claim the wreckage.

Assuming anyone more favorable to Israel than Obama (and this includes Clinton, Warren, Biden, or most other Democrats) takes office in 2.5 years, the status quo will likely resume.

As for the thread itself, no one here could seriously think that Hamas being legitimized as the Palestinian government wouldn't have massive repercussions. Israel has basically established this as a red line.

What repercussions?  Israel would have been building more settlements regardless of whatever the Palestinians did.  All the new Palestinian government did was give the Zionists yet another excuse for what they wanted to do.  But they would have done it anyway even without any excuse.  That's precisely why the PA has essentially given up on negotiating with Israel, they have absolutely nothing to gain from doing so.

[PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald]

I will again shill my theory that Israel will align itself with Russia in the coming years.

That would surprise me. Putin has his eyes on Tamar and Leviathan, and he doesn't want to buy it. It's in his best interests to help the Arab states and attempt to push the clock towards doomsday, then swoop in and claim the wreckage.

Assuming anyone more favorable to Israel than Obama (and this includes Clinton, Warren, Biden, or most other Democrats) takes office in 2.5 years, the status quo will likely resume.

As for the thread itself, no one here could seriously think that Hamas being legitimized as the Palestinian government wouldn't have massive repercussions. Israel has basically established this as a red line.

What repercussions?  Israel would have been building more settlements regardless of whatever the Palestinians did.  All the new Palestinian government did was give the Zionists yet another excuse for what they wanted to do.  But they would have done it anyway even without any excuse.  That's precisely why the PA has essentially given up on negotiating with Israel, they have absolutely nothing to gain from doing so.

Hypothetically, is it even possible for the area of Israel/Palestine to support two states? I mean, it may be that is is only possible to support one real state and one "Bantustan" and there is no room for compromise.
This is certainly a tough situation; I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make these decisions.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Hypothetically, is it even possible for the area of Israel/Palestine to support two states? I mean, it may be that is is only possible to support one real state and one "Bantustan" and there is no room for compromise.
This is certainly a tough situation; I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make these decisions.

If there ever were a real peace, then certainly there could be two states.  But I don't really see how it could be possible right now.  The current situation is far from ideal, but how to get to a peaceful two-state solution is something I just don't see.  The only thing I see is that building more settlements is certainly not the way there.  I think even the Zionists realize that, but like the Palestinians, they too have essentially given up on the idea that a stable two-state solution is possible.  Peace is something both sides pay lip service to these days without any expectation it is really possible.

[Indy Texas]

I was just in Israel yesterday doing an obligatory circuit of all the touristy stuff. When we were driving through the West Bank to visit Bethlehem, we drove past some far flung settlements in some of the most desolate, apocalyptic looking areas I'd ever seen. There was literally nothing there - no plant life, no color, just one rocky white hill after another. It looked like it would be better suited to nuclear waste disposal than human habitation. But then you'd see a cluster of red-roofed houses with solar panels behind a fortified wall. Not only do I disagree with them living there, I honestly can't understand why anyone would want to.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Not only do I disagree with them living there, I honestly can't understand why anyone would want to.

God commands it.

[dead0man]

...and there is at least one person (and likely a dozen or so more) that would have no problems at all if every man, woman and child living in that wasteland was murdered in cold blood this morning.

[Meursault]

Yes. His first name is Heinz. He's an NDP member in Germany. He's never seen a Jew in person.

[swl]

I think even the Zionists realize that, but like the Palestinians, they too have essentially given up on the idea that a stable two-state solution is possible. 

I think most people realize that the only stable solution is a one state solution, with the two people living together, without apartheid. It's the most utopic but it's the only real stable solution... We will see in 50 years.

[politicus]

I think even the Zionists realize that, but like the Palestinians, they too have essentially given up on the idea that a stable two-state solution is possible. 

I think most people realize that the only stable solution is a one state solution, with the two people living together, without apartheid. It's the most utopic but it's the only real stable solution... We will see in 50 years.

That would make the whole idea of Israel pointless and with the higher Palestinian birthrate it would quickly lead to an Arab majority.

[Famous Mortimer]

I think even the Zionists realize that, but like the Palestinians, they too have essentially given up on the idea that a stable two-state solution is possible.  

I think most people realize that the only stable solution is a one state solution, with the two people living together, without apartheid. It's the most utopic but it's the only real stable solution... We will see in 50 years.

That would make the whole idea of Israel pointless and with the higher Palestinian birthrate it would quickly lead to an Arab majority.

This is true but it in no way invalidates anything swl said.

[Nhoj]

I think even the Zionists realize that, but like the Palestinians, they too have essentially given up on the idea that a stable two-state solution is possible. 

I think most people realize that the only stable solution is a one state solution, with the two people living together, without apartheid. It's the most utopic but it's the only real stable solution... We will see in 50 years.

The idea that a one state solution is a stable one is laughable.

[politicus]

I think even the Zionists realize that, but like the Palestinians, they too have essentially given up on the idea that a stable two-state solution is possible.  

I think most people realize that the only stable solution is a one state solution, with the two people living together, without apartheid. It's the most utopic but it's the only real stable solution... We will see in 50 years.

That would make the whole idea of Israel pointless and with the higher Palestinian birthrate it would quickly lead to an Arab majority.

This is true but it in no way invalidates anything swl said.

It invalidates the part about such a state being stable.

[bgwah]

A two state solution benefits Israel more than it does the Palestinians. This - mixed with the fact that the Palestinians basically have nothing to lose - puts Israel in the position of having to sacrifice or compromise more if they want it to become a reality. Stopping these settlement expansions is the most obvious compromise they need to make.

The status quo is not sustainable. What exactly is the long-term plan of the Israeli right and their sympathizers? How do you guys expect this to end?

[Famous Mortimer]

How is a one state solution less stable than the current situation?

[politicus]

How is a one state solution less stable than the current situation?

I didn't say it was less stable, only that it wouldn't be stable. You get a lot of conflict over the control of this state. Its only stable if the Jews give up and leave or are forced out. Basically a one state solution is the same as a Palestinian win in the long run. Its not a neutral solution.

To bgwah: Most desirable solution from a pro-Israeli POV is: Jordan is taken over by the Palestinian majority and united with most of the West Bank. The new state then recognizes Jerusalem as Israeli territory, but gets sovereignty over Islamic holy places.

But this would require the Palestinians to accept that they lost in 1948 and 1967 and can never regain the lost territory, something thats hard to reconcile with Arab mentality.

[Famous Mortimer]

How is a one state solution less stable than the current situation?

I didn't say it was less stable, only that it wouldn't be stable. You get a lot of conflict over the control of this state. Its only stable if the Jews give up and leave or are forced out. Basically a one state solution is the same as a Palestinian win in the long run. Its not a neutral solution.

Most desirable solution from a pro-Israeli POV is: Jordan is taken over by the Palestinian majority and united with most of the West Bank. The new state then recognizes Jerusalem as Israeli territory, but gets sovereignty over Islamic holy places.

But this would require the Palestinians to accept that they lost in 1948 and 1967 and can never regain the lost territory, something thats hard to reconcile with Arab mentality.

A stable solution, as you would call it, is not possible. Nor is one that does not favor the Arabs. Your ideal Israeli solution is ridiculous. Even the Israeli far-right don't believe that will happen or want it to happen (the Israeli right does not want to give up the West Bank at all, that's why they keep building settlements and why a 2 state solution will never happen). On the left, liberal Israelis don't take seriously the idea of Jordan as a "Palestinian state," that's a pure right-wing talking point, that has no place in enlightened society. It's like saying Mexican Americans shouldn't have political rights because Mexico is a country.