Inside Manhattan's most hipster-y megachurch

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/06/03/inside-manhattans-most-hipster-y-megachurch/

Everything from the concerts to the baptisms... this has 'you-know-who' written all over it.

Still, I don't look very favorably toward megachurches and this is no exception.  I'm sure the pastor's heart is in the right place, but I will personally never preach in something that resembles a concert hall more than it resembles a church.

EDIT: Just googled the man's name and found this.  I have to say, I like his style, but, his church just wouldn't be for me if I lived in Manhattan.

[afleitch]

Meh. He's learned the art of being 'evasive' on some of the hot button issues like any good salesman.

[H. Ross Peron]

I wish they'd done a story on Redeemer Presbyterian instead.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Do they do anything besides preaching and singing?  Coming together to worship is good, but that is not all that is necessary to make a church.

[DC Al Fine]

Do they do anything besides preaching and singing?  Coming together to worship is good, but that is not all that is necessary to make a church.

Indeed, where is the liturgy? Where are the sacraments.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Do they do anything besides preaching and singing?  Coming together to worship is good, but that is not all that is necessary to make a church.

Indeed, where is the liturgy? Where are the sacraments.

That isn't what I was referring to.  A church is not a building, but a community.  It needs more than simply worship services of whatever variety.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Actually it's not really my thing either. Too big. Remember the type of shows I go to, not huge rock concerts.

This would be more my type of thing in NYC: http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/35/48/dtg_churchattrashbar_2012_11_30_bk.html
http://vimeo.com/913395

Hell on the front page of their website they even have a poster advertising some event that says "Conservations about art and some seriously deep sh!t" (but uncensored). So awesome. Reminds me of the time that woman preaching said "But Jesus wasn't like that at all. Jesus was like, "No, f[inks] that!"" *lots of applause*

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Actually it's not really my thing either. Too big. Remember the type of shows I go to, not huge rock concerts.

This would be more my type of thing in NYC: http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/35/48/dtg_churchattrashbar_2012_11_30_bk.html
http://vimeo.com/913395

Hell on the front page of their website they even have a poster advertising some event that says "Conservations about art and some seriously deep sh!t" (but uncensored). So awesome. Reminds me of the time that woman preaching said "But Jesus wasn't like that at all. Jesus was like, "No, f[inks] that!"" *lots of applause*

Wait, she actually said that in the pulpit?

Did Nadia Bolz-Weber happen to come to your church one day?

Do they do anything besides preaching and singing?  Coming together to worship is good, but that is not all that is necessary to make a church.

That's one of the problems I have with megachurches.  How can you possibly lead a Bible Study unless everyone in your group has equal opportunity to engage and contribute?  More importantly, what's the point of going to a church where you probably don't even meet your pastor?  The bigger the crowd, the less of a well-knit community you're actually going to have, which is half of the entire church experience.

[patrick1]

Hipsters are self righteous poseurs about everything else, so why not their faith?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Actually it's not really my thing either. Too big. Remember the type of shows I go to, not huge rock concerts.

This would be more my type of thing in NYC: http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/35/48/dtg_churchattrashbar_2012_11_30_bk.html
http://vimeo.com/913395

Hell on the front page of their website they even have a poster advertising some event that says "Conservations about art and some seriously deep sh!t" (but uncensored). So awesome. Reminds me of the time that woman preaching said "But Jesus wasn't like that at all. Jesus was like, "No, f[inks] that!"" *lots of applause*

Wait, she actually said that in the pulpit?

Did Nadia Bolz-Weber happen to come to your church one day?

Well no, because there is no pulpit. But yes while preaching the sermon.

And no, Nadia Bolz-Weber is an actual minister, she was just some small group leader preaching during a series of all guest speakers.

[Deus Naturae]

"Don't tell anyone else how to live" seems like one of the weirdest things anyone could come away thinking after reading the New Testament.

Also, what's the actual difference between a regular church and a "mega-church?"

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Do they do anything besides preaching and singing?  Coming together to worship is good, but that is not all that is necessary to make a church.

Indeed, where is the liturgy? Where are the sacraments.

DC, Hillsong is Assemblies of God. Communion and Baptism are sacraments (ordinances) within the A/G.

I echo Scott's concerns with mega churches because of relationship building factors. I attend a church with approx 400 people on an average Sunday between our two Sunday morning services. Personally I think 500 people in one church is pushing time to plant another church like it in another part of the community. Hillsong (the parent church of the one in NYC) alone could create 60 smaller church families. The worlds largest church (Yodio Full Gospel Tab.) in South Korea could turn into 2,000 smaller related congregations

[DC Al Fine]

Do they do anything besides preaching and singing?  Coming together to worship is good, but that is not all that is necessary to make a church.

Indeed, where is the liturgy? Where are the sacraments.

DC, Hillsong is Assemblies of God. Communion and Baptism are sacraments (ordinances) within the A/G.

Ah gotcha. My experience with local independent megachurches has made me a bit cynical. Most of the places I've seen don't even practice communion!

Do they do anything besides preaching and singing?  Coming together to worship is good, but that is not all that is necessary to make a church.

That's one of the problems I have with megachurches.  How can you possibly lead a Bible Study unless everyone in your group has equal opportunity to engage and contribute?  More importantly, what's the point of going to a church where you probably don't even meet your pastor?  The bigger the crowd, the less of a well-knit community you're actually going to have, which is half of the entire church experience.

Amen. Small prayer groups and bible studies are where a big chunk of your growth as a Christian comes from. A large portion of megachurch attendees are spiritually immature simply because they don't get anything more out of their religion than the Sunday morning concert. Of course, there's a lot you can do of your own initiative, but churches should make it easier for Joe Schmo to grow in the faith.

[bedstuy]

We have something of a "mega-church" here in my hood in Brooklyn.  It's based in Brazil and mostly caters to Caribbean folks in Brooklyn.  They have a real focus on taking people's money and  coercing them to give in order to get in good with God.  I think one of their official doctrines is that if you give them money, God will pay you back later with interest.

[DC Al Fine]

We have something of a "mega-church" here in my hood in Brooklyn.  It's based in Brazil and mostly caters to Caribbean folks in Brooklyn.  They have a real focus on taking people's money and  coercing them to give in order to get in good with God.  I think one of their official doctrines is that if you give them money, God will pay you back later with interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology

Aka: Heresy!

[bedstuy]

We have something of a "mega-church" here in my hood in Brooklyn.  It's based in Brazil and mostly caters to Caribbean folks in Brooklyn.  They have a real focus on taking people's money and  coercing them to give in order to get in good with God.  I think one of their official doctrines is that if you give them money, God will pay you back later with interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology

Aka: Heresy!

Apparently, this church makes $1.4 billion a year and their leader has a $45 million dollar private jet.  It's probably a very good business model with the expansion of pentecostalism in South America and Africa. 

[afleitch]

We have something of a "mega-church" here in my hood in Brooklyn.  It's based in Brazil and mostly caters to Caribbean folks in Brooklyn.  They have a real focus on taking people's money and  coercing them to give in order to get in good with God.  I think one of their official doctrines is that if you give them money, God will pay you back later with interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology

Aka: Heresy!

Apparently, this church makes $1.4 billion a year and their leader has a $45 million dollar private jet.  It's probably a very good business model with the expansion of pentecostalism in South America and Africa.  

$1.4bn? I should get in on that.

I won't obviously, because I'm not a massive c-nt.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I won't obviously, because I'm not a massive c-nt.

Which makes you a better Christian than those pastors who fleece their flocks using the Prosperity theology scam.
Yes, I'm aware Andrew's a self-professed atheist. That a moral atheist is a better Christian than these charlatans is exactly the point I'm trying to make.

[GaussLaw]

We have something of a "mega-church" here in my hood in Brooklyn.  It's based in Brazil and mostly caters to Caribbean folks in Brooklyn.  They have a real focus on taking people's money and  coercing them to give in order to get in good with God.  I think one of their official doctrines is that if you give them money, God will pay you back later with interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology

Aka: Heresy!

Unless they're referring to the "with interest" as being in heaven, of course.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

We have something of a "mega-church" here in my hood in Brooklyn.  It's based in Brazil and mostly caters to Caribbean folks in Brooklyn.  They have a real focus on taking people's money and  coercing them to give in order to get in good with God.  I think one of their official doctrines is that if you give them money, God will pay you back later with interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology

Aka: Heresy!

Unless they're referring to the "with interest" as being in heaven, of course.

Which those who preach PT don't.  They mean here on earth.  What's really sad is because of this theology that only the damned will remain poor, there have some who have gone deep in debt to project a false image of wealth so as to avoid being seen as sinners.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

We have something of a "mega-church" here in my hood in Brooklyn.  It's based in Brazil and mostly caters to Caribbean folks in Brooklyn.  They have a real focus on taking people's money and  coercing them to give in order to get in good with God.  I think one of their official doctrines is that if you give them money, God will pay you back later with interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology

Aka: Heresy!

Its a deceptive and dangerous teaching. Calvin and the Wesley's would come together against this.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Prosperity theology is unsurprisingly a frequently attacked target of Christian hardcore bands.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Come to think of it, though as noted it is too big for me, it does have a ton of advantage that I haven't really seen in any church before. For example note how everyone is standing the whole time. More room for dancing. In fact the whole thing actually reminded me of this. Note the hand movements for example, very similar. In fact if it wasn't for the lyrics that video could easily be from a church service too. And that's the way it should be. After all unlike shows church is also free.

Also worth noting that his preaching style is basically exactly the same as how hardcore frontmen give their little speeches between songs.