SENATE BILL: Rapists Shouldn't Have Custody Act of 2014 (Redraft Law'd)
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  SENATE BILL: Rapists Shouldn't Have Custody Act of 2014 (Redraft Law'd)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Rapists Shouldn't Have Custody Act of 2014 (Redraft Law'd)  (Read 2602 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2014, 08:37:31 PM »

The amendment has been adopted?

Anything else or can we end this?
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2014, 09:50:23 PM »

No, I don't think so. I'm ready for a final vote.
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TNF
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« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2014, 11:29:52 AM »

I'm ready for a final vote.
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Cincinnatus
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« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2014, 05:49:36 PM »
« Edited: June 14, 2014, 05:38:35 PM by Cincinnatus »

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A final vote is now open on the aforementioned text.  Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2014, 06:17:31 PM »

AYE
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shua
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« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2014, 07:01:49 PM »

NAY
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Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2014, 08:59:56 PM »

Aye.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2014, 11:09:48 PM »

Isn't this still unconstitutional?
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2014, 11:58:47 PM »


Which part? Banning this at the federal level?
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shua
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« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2014, 12:31:39 PM »


Which part? Banning this at the federal level?

Yes, the prohibition on regions making certain policies without a clear constitutional authority of the Senate in this area.  That and the fact that this looks suspiciously like a mandatory punishment.
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Lumine
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« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2014, 01:22:12 PM »

Aye.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2014, 08:11:26 PM »


Which part? Banning this at the federal level?

Yes, the prohibition on regions making certain policies without a clear constitutional authority of the Senate in this area.  That and the fact that this looks suspiciously like a mandatory punishment.

I could see the argument where this may be unconstitutional, but I am willing to let someone challenge this in court. I'd argue that our goal of protecting our children outweighs anything else, but of course, I bet some disagree.

Maybe we could tie this to educational funding?
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bore
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« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2014, 06:27:45 AM »

Aye

And as Duke alluded to, it's really not difficult, if this is found unconstitutional, to use the nuclear option.
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TNF
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« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2014, 08:07:56 AM »

Aye

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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2014, 04:44:03 PM »

Aye
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shua
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« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2014, 05:16:33 PM »


Aye

And as Duke alluded to, it's really not difficult, if this is found unconstitutional, to use the nuclear option.

You mean removing all federal funding from a region because they won't do something we legally are not allowed to command them to do?   That should definitely be considered unconstitutional.

That's like the police saying "We can't search your house without a warrant, but if you don't let us in we won't respond if you ever call 911."
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bore
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« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2014, 05:24:31 PM »


Aye

And as Duke alluded to, it's really not difficult, if this is found unconstitutional, to use the nuclear option.

You mean removing all federal funding from a region because they won't do something we legally are not allowed to command them to do?   That should definitely be considered unconstitutional.

That's like the police saying "We can't search your house without a warrant, but if you don't let us in we won't respond if you ever call 911."


We're not allowed to command them to do something but, from a legal point of view we wouldn't be commanding them to do something, we'd just be providing an incentive to do it.

The power of the purse has a long history and is certainly not unconstitutional, and I don't see how this would be any different.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2014, 05:31:39 PM »

Yes, Bore is correct. Look at the drinking age legislation in the US.... we tell states that they can make the drinking age to an age less than 21, but if they do, the federal government will withhold 10% of their funding for highways. The power of the purse is not unconstitutional in any way, and the Feds use it all the time to set national policy.

The punishment cannot be severe, like not responding to a 911 call, but it can be substantial. Withholding any emergency services is not comparable to withholding 10% of federal highway money. One basically coerces a state to follow suit and the other just gives them a strong incentive to do so. Coercion is, of course, unconstitutional.

I can see a scenario where this is unconstitutional, but to remedy it, all we'd need to do is tie it to funding, unless the Court ruled that this does not violate a fundamental right, like the right to custody of your child, if such exists. I am not going to divulge any deeper into this, because it can be argued either way, and I am not an AG nor a Court justice. I am just the President. What do I know?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2014, 08:34:22 PM »

AYE albeit with some concerns
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2014, 08:36:49 PM »

This has enough votes to pass, Senators have 24 hours to change their votes.



Aye

And as Duke alluded to, it's really not difficult, if this is found unconstitutional, to use the nuclear option.

You mean removing all federal funding from a region because they won't do something we legally are not allowed to command them to do?   That should definitely be considered unconstitutional.

Not really because no one is forcing them to take the money.

Ironically, the episode of M.A.S.H where BJ borrows money from Winchester to buy some land and pays for it as Winchester basically try to make him his slave, is on right now.
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shua
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« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2014, 10:20:04 PM »

This has enough votes to pass, Senators have 24 hours to change their votes.



Aye

And as Duke alluded to, it's really not difficult, if this is found unconstitutional, to use the nuclear option.

You mean removing all federal funding from a region because they won't do something we legally are not allowed to command them to do?   That should definitely be considered unconstitutional.

Not really because no one is forcing them to take the money.

Ironically, the episode of M.A.S.H where BJ borrows money from Winchester to buy some land and pays for it as Winchester basically try to make him his slave, is on right now.

No, we are just taxing the people of the region, thus lessening the tax base for regional funding for a function, and then withholding the money for that function if they don't do what we tell them in some completely different area. Yeah, not coercive at all.   
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2014, 03:21:47 AM »

Aye
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TNF
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« Reply #47 on: June 16, 2014, 10:21:03 AM »

lol @ people being 'concerned' about how constitutional this is or isn't, but apparently not being concerned by the fact that a rapist today has the possibility of gaining custody over a child fathered through unconsensual intercourse
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2014, 11:47:51 AM »

This has enough votes to pass, Senators have 24 hours to change their votes.



Aye

And as Duke alluded to, it's really not difficult, if this is found unconstitutional, to use the nuclear option.

You mean removing all federal funding from a region because they won't do something we legally are not allowed to command them to do?   That should definitely be considered unconstitutional.

Not really because no one is forcing them to take the money.

Ironically, the episode of M.A.S.H where BJ borrows money from Winchester to buy some land and pays for it as Winchester basically try to make him his slave, is on right now.

No, we are just taxing the people of the region, thus lessening the tax base for regional funding for a function, and then withholding the money for that function if they don't do what we tell them in some completely different area. Yeah, not coercive at all.   

Hold on, I'm confused. Do you think rapists should be allowed custody of their children?
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shua
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« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2014, 12:10:02 PM »

I think custody should be based on what is in the best interest of the children, and in the case of rape, on the rights of the victim.  There should be laws that strongly protect the rights of the victim in this area and the relationship between the victim and the child where such exists, but we also have family courts for a reason to look at the specifics of a case. 

I also think we should follow the Constitution and the Constitution simply doesn't give us the authority to do this.
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