SENATE BILL: Demilitarization Act of 2014 (Redraft Law'd)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor: TNF

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Didn't we already vote this down last session?

[TNF]

Didn't we already vote this down last session?

No, this is an entirely new bill.

The purpose of this act is to trim spending in the armed forces and fully end the requirement of draft registration.

[Lumine]

I must ask, do we really want to weaken our military even more?

Some past bills seem to have reduced the military budget quite substantially (except in benefits for Veterans), and I don't think it's a good idea to pursue such a line of thinking. If anything, I would argue that we need to consider to raise spending on the military next budget instead of trimming it even more.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Some people oppose our current status as a superpower and feel severely weakening our military and intelligence capabilities is the way to go, spending that money domestically instead.

I tend to disagree, as I feel we play an important role on the national stage, and rolling back our military capabilities would be harmful, but others don't. C'est la vie.

[Goldwater]

Just about anything with "Demilitarization" in it's title will never get my vote.

[TNF]

I fail to see how preventing military recruitment in high schools and colleges, and eliminating the waste that is the military propaganda (I'm sorry, "advertising") budget is going to make our military "weaker."

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I fail to see how preventing military recruitment in high schools and colleges, and eliminating the waste that is the military propaganda (I'm sorry, "advertising") budget is going to make our military "weaker."

Just pointing out that if you're going that route, all advertising is propaganda here (though knowing you, you probably support the abolition of private television stations).

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

FYI, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, equal protection, etc all would be violated if we passed this bill.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Not necessarily because the military works for the gov't and the gov't can regulate what it can and cannot do.

That said, I don't see a problem with having military recruiters on campuses. Its a matter of free choice, no one is forcing you to pick up the brochure.

Clause 2, maybe.

Clause 3, in conjucntion with Clause 1 would severly crimp recruitment.

Clause 4, What is wrong with these programs? Membership is voluntary and for those who select the military as a career, it can be helpful in terms of getting thme ready, which is what school is suppose to do, get people ready for their careers or indirectly so with college preparations.

Clause 5 - We have a high standard and severe limitations on the use of the draft. I hate the system myself, but if we still have a use for the draft in emergency circumstnaces, we should also have a means to put it to use.

[TNF]

FYI, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, equal protection, etc all would be violated if we passed this bill.

Nonsense. The military does not have the automatic right to go into schools and try and convince people to join up anymore than any other organization does.

[Lumine]

FYI, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, equal protection, etc all would be violated if we passed this bill.

Nonsense. The military does not have the automatic right to go into schools and try and convince people to join up anymore than any other organization does.

Could be, but that doesn't mean we should forbade them to go into schools. If they convince people and they join the army of their own accord, what's the problem?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Right, TNF. The military has the same rights that any other organization, sans something like alcohol or tobacco companies, to go advertise to people. The state can limit free speech if it has a specific reason to do so, yes, but I don't see a valid reason to ban military recruitment. They aren't forcing anyone to sign up. They are recruiting volunteers. Just as all advertisers do.

What interest does the state have in limiting their freedom of speech?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The military has no freedom of speech, because it is a gov't entity. It does what we tell them to do. Only if the military were an independnet entity would the concern be ah a concern, Mr. President. That would violate the principle of civilian control over the military, which is a dangerous road to traverse.

[Adam Griffin]

With perhaps Section 5 being the exception, I fail to see why this is controversial in any way, shape or form? Do we really want to promote a culture of meatheadism and pathways through it as viable options when pursuing secondary and post-secondary education?

The military recruitment system preys on adolescents like any typical rapist, making them promises that will never be kept (and legally don't have to be kept). At the end of the day, these kids are worn down so much physically and psychologically that very few of them ever make it to any decent retirement.

It disproportionately targets minority communities for recruitment because the relatively low wages and risk of fatality is only palatable to those who are disproportionately stuck in a type of poverty from which escape feels impossible. The remainder only join because of either bloodlust or ignorance, or if they're lucky, enroll in college and become officers instead.

If somebody wants to throw their physical and mental health away - along with a pretty good chunk of their dignity for a trade-off of "discipline" - then let them seek out such an opportunity on their own.

[bore]

Right, TNF. The military has the same rights that any other organization, sans something like alcohol or tobacco companies, to go advertise to people. The state can limit free speech if it has a specific reason to do so, yes, but I don't see a valid reason to ban military recruitment. They aren't forcing anyone to sign up. They are recruiting volunteers. Just as all advertisers do.

What interest does the state have in limiting their freedom of speech?

That, then, is the question, whether the military is more like a tobacco company or one that sells car insurance, and I think a good argument can be made that the military is like the tobacco company.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Well, even with alcohol and tobacco companies, the companies are still allowed to advertise. They just cannot target underaged people and they must include warnings on their ads. They are not outright banned from having their voices heard.

I am okay with clause 2 though..

[TNF]

Well, even with alcohol and tobacco companies, the companies are still allowed to advertise. They just cannot target underaged people and they must include warnings on their ads. They are not outright banned from having their voices heard.

I am okay with clause 2 though..

Nah, all drug advertising is actually banned in Atlasia.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Well, even with alcohol and tobacco companies, the companies are still allowed to advertise. They just cannot target underaged people and they must include warnings on their ads. They are not outright banned from having their voices heard.

I am okay with clause 2 though..

Nah, all drug advertising is actually banned in Atlasia.

Even tobacco and alcohol? Interesting.

[TNF]

Well, even with alcohol and tobacco companies, the companies are still allowed to advertise. They just cannot target underaged people and they must include warnings on their ads. They are not outright banned from having their voices heard.

I am okay with clause 2 though..

Nah, all drug advertising is actually banned in Atlasia.

Even tobacco and alcohol? Interesting.

Yeah, you actually signed that into law:

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[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Well, even with alcohol and tobacco companies, the companies are still allowed to advertise. They just cannot target underaged people and they must include warnings on their ads. They are not outright banned from having their voices heard.

I am okay with clause 2 though..

Nah, all drug advertising is actually banned in Atlasia.

Even tobacco and alcohol? Interesting.

Yeah, you actually signed that into law:

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Oh, right, I remember that. I wonder if that is constitutional, for the soft drugs at least. I do think the state has an interest in limiting or banning advertising of those things due to the inherit risks of drinking/smoking/using drugs.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What is wrong with ROTC?   It's not my cup of tea, but if someone is considering a military career, that could be very helpful preparation.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I was never a fan of ROTC either but I certainly don't see why it should be banned.


Also pulling the millitary back and seperating it from the people is only going to make people more suspicious of it and engender the risk of what we experienced post Vietnam with regards to our troops getting treated like crap.

[bore]

Offering an amendment:

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[TNF]

Friendly.