A Taxanomy for Protestants

[ilikeverin]

I'm not going to bother putting everyone's name up on the chart, but this is how R&P Christians would rank, from most progressive to most conservative.

opebo > BRTD > Progressive Realist > Harry > TDAS04 > Ernest/True Federalist > Scott > ilikeverin > Nathan > General Mung Beans > Jbrase > Simfan34 > GaussLaw > DC Al Fine > Cassius > TJ in Wisco > Never Convinced > BushOklahoma > JCL > jmfcst

I thought I'd include opebo and jmfcst for good measure.

Ooh, I'm on a list!  How flattering.  I feel closer to the left, though.

I'm still hoping Al explains how he'd define the zero values on these axes.

This is still a first draft. I hadn't really thought out what (0, 0) is. I guess that's part of the problem; we think of everything relatively in Protestantism.

What's the average United Methodist like? That church seems pretty centrist, so perhaps that's a good starting point.

The UMC would kill to be (0, 0).  That literally seems to be the purpose of the United Methodist Church these days.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

I'm not going to bother putting everyone's name up on the chart, but this is how R&P Christians would rank, from most progressive to most conservative.

opebo > BRTD > Progressive Realist > Harry > TDAS04 > Ernest/True Federalist > Scott > ilikeverin > Nathan > General Mung Beans > Jbrase > Simfan34 > GaussLaw > DC Al Fine > Cassius > TJ in Wisco > Never Convinced > BushOklahoma > JCL > jmfcst

I thought I'd include opebo and jmfcst for good measure.

I think Harry might be to the left of Progressive Realist. I know you really dislike jmfcst but putting him to the right of JCL strikes me as a calumny. Otherwise this looks good to me.

I'm still hoping Al explains how he'd define the zero values on these axes.

Why would you put me to the right of jmfcst?

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Yeah, thinking about it now, the UU's would be a bad example.  The UCC, on the other hand, is probably one of the most liberal Trinitarian denominations if not the most liberal Trinitarian denomination in America.  It may have once been rooted in Reformed theology, but it moved past that a long time ago.

The UMC would probably represent 'the center' best, if only because what they preach strictly varies by chapter and location.  Still, aligning the churches from 'left' to 'right' is obviously very difficult and I'd think most would oppose it given that churches do not want to be seen as political parties, even though that's where the divide among Christians is clearly headed toward.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I'm not going to bother putting everyone's name up on the chart, but this is how R&P Christians would rank, from most progressive to most conservative.

opebo > BRTD > Progressive Realist > Harry > TDAS04 > Ernest/True Federalist > Scott > ilikeverin > Nathan > General Mung Beans > Jbrase > Simfan34 > GaussLaw > DC Al Fine > Cassius > TJ in Wisco > Never Convinced > BushOklahoma > JCL > jmfcst

I thought I'd include opebo and jmfcst for good measure.

I think Harry might be to the left of Progressive Realist. I know you really dislike jmfcst but putting him to the right of JCL strikes me as a calumny. Otherwise this looks good to me.

I'm still hoping Al explains how he'd define the zero values on these axes.

Why would you put me to the right of jmfcst?

Like Scott said, I don't remember jmfcst as having been into claiming that Christian orthodoxy necessarily implied American-style political rightism to the extent that you are, although he obviously perceived a correlation. As a matter of fact, I think jmfcst would probably be a better exemplar for the midpoint of the bottom right quadrant in Al's original graph than you are. Since he's not here any more, maybe Never Convinced would do.

Yeah, thinking about it now, the UU's would be a bad example.  The UCC, on the other hand, is probably one of the most liberal Trinitarian denominations if not the most liberal Trinitarian denomination in America.  It may have once been rooted in Reformed theology, but it moved past that a long time ago.

I'm saying it's overall intermediate between High and Low Church, not it's overall moderate. I don't think either is true of the UUA, which I'd position as slightly above BRTD's church, but only slightly, and further left than literally anything else that's been discussed in this thread.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'd dispute that I'm more theologically liberal than Progressive Realist or Harry. Might I add it's odd when a charismatic can be considered the most theologically liberal of a group.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

'Charismatic' would put you lower on this spectrum, not further right or left. You're welcome to name specific theological positions that you think put you to the right of Progressive Realist and Harry if you want.

[DC Al Fine]

Interesting. Though it's American centric naturally, from denominations to the whole 'libertarian' axis thing.

Oh that's because I stole the chart from Political Compass

[DC Al Fine]

I like what Nathan and Muon were saying. UMC is the middle of the left-right axis, and UCC is the middle of the high-low. Any other suggestions before I try to map some denominations out?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I don't really perceive UMC as (0,0) tho I agree that's probably what they'd like to think of themselves as on the left-right part of the spectrum.  I'd probably place UMC as (-2, 3) on the spectrum.  The 3 is largely because of church governance rather than worship style.  While they aren't as dogmatic about it as they once were, a UMC pastor can still expect to do a lot of moving as the bishops move them from one church to another.

[Del Tachi]

UMC is probably well suited to be at the center from left-to-right, but it is fairly hierarchical in governance so it might be a bit above the center.

Maybe the Disciples of Christ would be good at 0,0?  They're probably near the center on the authoritarian/libertarian axis but may be marginally to the right on liberal/conservative axis.

Actually, scratch that.  They're way down there on the authoritarian/libertarian axis.  They're near the center of liberal/conservative though.   

[Oldiesfreak1854]

My denomination would probably be more in line with DC, but my personal views would be somewhat less conservative and high church.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

My denomination would probably be more in line with DC, but my personal views would be somewhat less conservative and high church.

What's Seventh-Day Adventist worship and church governance like? For some reason I find the idea that could be described as High Church surprising.

[Never]

My denomination would probably be more in line with DC, but my personal views would be somewhat less conservative and high church.

What's Seventh-Day Adventist worship and church governance like? For some reason I find the idea that could be described as High Church surprising.

From an outsider's view, I'd have to say that they are Low Church in their worship-style, at least where I live. One of the larger Seventh-Day Adventist churches in my locale supports Washington, D.C.'s only major contemporary Christian music station and sponsors CCM concerts. That doesn't sound very High Church to me.

[CatoMinor]

My denomination would probably be more in line with DC, but my personal views would be somewhat less conservative and high church.

What's Seventh-Day Adventist worship and church governance like? For some reason I find the idea that could be described as High Church surprising.

From an outsider's view, I'd have to say that they are Low Church in their worship-style, at least where I live. One of the larger Seventh-Day Adventist churches in my locale supports Washington, D.C.'s only major contemporary Christian music station and sponsors CCM concerts. That doesn't sound very High Church to me.

Maybe the concerts are in gregorian chants.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Maybe the concerts are in gregorian chants.

Doubtful as those would be Catholic.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

My denomination would probably be more in line with DC, but my personal views would be somewhat less conservative and high church.

What's Seventh-Day Adventist worship and church governance like? For some reason I find the idea that could be described as High Church surprising.

From an outsider's view, I'd have to say that they are Low Church in their worship-style, at least where I live. One of the larger Seventh-Day Adventist churches in my locale supports Washington, D.C.'s only major contemporary Christian music station and sponsors CCM concerts. That doesn't sound very High Church to me.

Most conservatives in the church are vehemently opposed to contemporary Christian music (including my pastor), but some churches do use it.  This church is a good example, although it appears to be one of the larger SDA churches out there.  I also occasionally watch some of the services at Pioneer Memorial(on the campus of an SDA university in my home state of Michigan), a very large church that frequently uses both traditional and contemporary hymns.  That seems to be the pattern I've seen: the small SDA churches (like mine) stick to traditional, High Church services and are very anti-CCM; the larger churches are more progressive and comfortable with it.

As for church governance, I don't know how to describe it, but it's definitely not congregational.  The individual churches make decisions on accepting members or allowing them to transfer elsewhere, but doctrinal issues are largely controlled by the global church leadership at the General Conference.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

'Charismatic' would put you lower on this spectrum, not further right or left. You're welcome to name specific theological positions that you think put you to the right of Progressive Realist and Harry if you want.

Neither one seems like a pretty staunch Trinitarian, and certainly open to things like the physical resurrection of Jesus.

[GaussLaw]

Thanks for including me, Scott. 

I focus a lot on scripture, but think one must consider content, context, dispensation, and consistency with other parts of the Bible to form good doctrine. 

As for low vs high church, I do not see why worship needs to be formal and filled with complex sacraments and liturgies.  A sermon, some good Christian music of any type, and a communion every month or so is sufficient.  I think Bible study is just as if not more important than worship services and should be a focus of the church.  Too many people have never actually read any of the Bible for themselves, and are, as I would call them, drifters in the church.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

'Charismatic' would put you lower on this spectrum, not further right or left. You're welcome to name specific theological positions that you think put you to the right of Progressive Realist and Harry if you want.

Neither one seems like a pretty staunch Trinitarian, and certainly open to things like the physical resurrection of Jesus.

Point taken. I'd agree that you'd probably go to their right, then.

[Never]

My denomination would probably be more in line with DC, but my personal views would be somewhat less conservative and high church.

What's Seventh-Day Adventist worship and church governance like? For some reason I find the idea that could be described as High Church surprising.

From an outsider's view, I'd have to say that they are Low Church in their worship-style, at least where I live. One of the larger Seventh-Day Adventist churches in my locale supports Washington, D.C.'s only major contemporary Christian music station and sponsors CCM concerts. That doesn't sound very High Church to me.

Most conservatives in the church are vehemently opposed to contemporary Christian music (including my pastor), but some churches do use it.  This church is a good example, although it appears to be one of the larger SDA churches out there.  I also occasionally watch some of the services at Pioneer Memorial(on the campus of an SDA university in my home state of Michigan), a very large church that frequently uses both traditional and contemporary hymns.  That seems to be the pattern I've seen: the small SDA churches (like mine) stick to traditional, High Church services and are very anti-CCM; the larger churches are more progressive and comfortable with it.

As for church governance, I don't know how to describe it, but it's definitely not congregational.  The individual churches make decisions on accepting members or allowing them to transfer elsewhere, but doctrinal issues are largely controlled by the global church leadership at the General Conference.

Thanks for the insight, especially since you are an SDA member yourself. I'd say that many Baptist churches in the South are like the SDA ones in the regard that the large (or new) ones accept almost any music, while the small, established Baptist churches prefer traditional or acoustic music.

Also, the Adventist church that supports the CCM station where I live is huge, which validates what you are saying.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

I'd dispute that I'm more theologically liberal than Progressive Realist or Harry. Might I add it's odd when a charismatic can be considered the most theologically liberal of a group.

I'd have to dispute that too. I'm sure you'd be more theologically liberal than me but more conservative than Realist or Harry.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Do Harry and PR believe in faith healing?

[DC Al Fine]

I'd dispute that I'm more theologically liberal than Progressive Realist or Harry. Might I add it's odd when a charismatic can be considered the most theologically liberal of a group.

I'd have to dispute that too. I'm sure you'd be more theologically liberal than me but more conservative than Realist or Harry.

Indeed Harry is such a liberal Episcopalian in all but name, he couldn't be less literal if Katherine Jefferts Schori formed him from the dust herself

[DC Al Fine]

So I'm starting to make up a quiz for the compass. Anyone ideas for questions?

Here's what I have so far:
Left-Right
Literal resurrection
Female clergy
YEC vs. Evolution
Trinity
Belief in God period
Marriage
Divorce

High-Low
Infant vs Believer's Baptism
Preferred form of church government
Communion (probably 2-3 q's related to this)

[bore]

Type of hymns preferred?