Lois Lerner's hard drive destroyed

[Matty]

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http://www.politico.com/story/2014/06/irs-lois-lerner-emails-108044.html

[7,052,770]

The Right is still going to be whining about this in 50 years...

[Simfan34]

Uh huh.

[CountryClassSF]

Totally believable. Nothin' to see here folks!

[badgate]

[CatoMinor]

I really really really don't want make one of those "You all would be mad if this was a Republican" posts, but seriously, if this was in the Bush Administration, Dems would (rightfully) be calling for heads to roll.

[Joe Republic]

#seagategate

[7,052,770]

I really really really don't want make one of those "You all would be mad if this was a Republican" posts, but seriously, if this was in the Bush Administration, Dems would (rightfully) be calling for heads to roll.

Perhaps a hard drive incident itself would, but some kind of mirror image of the IRS "Scandal" would never have fired up Democrats like this. Once it was debunked, only a small fringe of Democrats would care and Democrats in Congress (other than McKinney-types) wouldn't be calling for more and more hearings about it.

[Never]

I really really really don't want make one of those "You all would be mad if this was a Republican" posts, but seriously, if this was in the Bush Administration, Dems would (rightfully) be calling for heads to roll.

I agree with this sentiment, but if there is no hard drive left, we might as well stop caring about whatever wrongdoing Lois Lerner did. In my opinion, it is pretty clear that this was a cover-up, but genuine evidence is required to find anyone guilty of anything. Without evidence, I don't think that it would be acceptable to stick anything to Lerner and/or the others in the Obama Administration.

This whole incident with Lerner is one of the many reasons why I don't like the IRS.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I really really really don't want make one of those "You all would be mad if this was a Republican" posts, but seriously, if this was in the Bush Administration, Dems would (rightfully) be calling for heads to roll.

I think most Dems here wouldn't care about IRS mischief in any case.

[Deus Naturae]

I really really really don't want make one of those "You all would be mad if this was a Republican" posts, but seriously, if this was in the Bush Administration, Dems would (rightfully) be calling for heads to roll.

I agree with this sentiment, but if there is no hard drive left, we might as well stop caring about whatever wrongdoing Lois Lerner did. In my opinion, it is pretty clear that this was a cover-up, but genuine evidence is required to find anyone guilty of anything. Without evidence, I don't think that it would be acceptable to stick anything to Lerner and/or the others in the Obama Administration.

So, if a cop accused of a police brutality decided to destroy (sorry, "lose") the evidence, the accusation should just be dismissed.

[Indy Texas]

The Republicans better shut up about the IRS thing or Hillary might do to Lois Lerner what she did to Vince Foster when he threatened to tell everyone about her ill-gotten Whitewater money.

[MaxQue]

I really really really don't want make one of those "You all would be mad if this was a Republican" posts, but seriously, if this was in the Bush Administration, Dems would (rightfully) be calling for heads to roll.

I agree with this sentiment, but if there is no hard drive left, we might as well stop caring about whatever wrongdoing Lois Lerner did. In my opinion, it is pretty clear that this was a cover-up, but genuine evidence is required to find anyone guilty of anything. Without evidence, I don't think that it would be acceptable to stick anything to Lerner and/or the others in the Obama Administration.

So, if a cop accused of a police brutality decided to destroy (sorry, "lose") the evidence, the accusation should just be dismissed.

Well, to get a guilty verdict from a court, you need to prove the offense.

In the case you propose, the logical answer is prosecuting the cop for destroying evidence.

[Never]

I really really really don't want make one of those "You all would be mad if this was a Republican" posts, but seriously, if this was in the Bush Administration, Dems would (rightfully) be calling for heads to roll.

I agree with this sentiment, but if there is no hard drive left, we might as well stop caring about whatever wrongdoing Lois Lerner did. In my opinion, it is pretty clear that this was a cover-up, but genuine evidence is required to find anyone guilty of anything. Without evidence, I don't think that it would be acceptable to stick anything to Lerner and/or the others in the Obama Administration.

So, if a cop accused of a police brutality decided to destroy (sorry, "lose") the evidence, the accusation should just be dismissed.

Well, all I'm saying is that we need evidence for any potential legal action, and that we would still need evidence to prove that the original evidence is destroyed, if that makes sense.

I definitely think this whole story is fishy, but the accusation has to be grounded in something. Perhaps a special prosecutor could find any evidence that is still out there...

[DrScholl]

Hasn't it been established that there was nothing wrong done? There were liberal groups that were scrutinized to. It's not out of the realm of possibility that political groups would try to get around regulations, so some do actually need to be scrutinized.

[Lief 🗽]

If only Obama would stop using Benghazi to distract us from the IRS scandal!!

[7,052,770]

Hasn't it been established that there was nothing wrong done? There were liberal groups that were scrutinized to. It's not out of the realm of possibility that political groups would try to get around regulations, so some do actually need to be scrutinized.

Yes, the reason why the number of scrutinized conservative groups was so much higher is that 2009-10 was the height of the Tea Party craze and almost all of the new political groups organizing that year were right-wing groups. There is no evidence that a new conservative group was more likely to be targeted than a new liberal group.

[Deus Naturae]

Hasn't it been established that there was nothing wrong done? There were liberal groups that were scrutinized to. It's not out of the realm of possibility that political groups would try to get around regulations, so some do actually need to be scrutinized.

That could have been established, if only a few emails hadn't been "accidentally deleted."

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Hasn't it been established that there was nothing wrong done? There were liberal groups that were scrutinized to. It's not out of the realm of possibility that political groups would try to get around regulations, so some do actually need to be scrutinized.

If it is true that liberal as well as conservative groups and their donors were subject to illegal activities by the IRS and an absurdly high number of audits, how does that make it okay?

[Brittain33]

Hasn't it been established that there was nothing wrong done? There were liberal groups that were scrutinized to. It's not out of the realm of possibility that political groups would try to get around regulations, so some do actually need to be scrutinized.

If it is true that liberal as well as conservative groups and their donors were subject to illegal activities by the IRS and an absurdly high number of audits, how does that make it okay?

Not sure there were either illegal activities or an absurdly high number of audits... Remember that these political groups were filing as "social welfare" organizations, following in the footsteps of Karl Rove's org, and let's be serious, filing a political advocacy group as if they were Meals on Wheels did deserve scrutiny.

In any case, the Fox News argument is that the Obama administration used the government to target its enemies. If the administration "targeted" both sides, then a major issue is removed.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Hasn't it been established that there was nothing wrong done? There were liberal groups that were scrutinized to. It's not out of the realm of possibility that political groups would try to get around regulations, so some do actually need to be scrutinized.

If it is true that liberal as well as conservative groups and their donors were subject to illegal activities by the IRS and an absurdly high number of audits, how does that make it okay?

Not sure there were either illegal activities or an absurdly high number of audits... Remember that these political groups were filing as "social welfare" organizations, following in the footsteps of Karl Rove's org, and let's be serious, filing a political advocacy group as if they were Meals on Wheels did deserve scrutiny.

In any case, the Fox News argument is that the Obama administration used the government to target its enemies. If the administration "targeted" both sides, then a major issue is removed.

The IRS illegally demanded donor lists and then used those lists to target those donors for audits.  I don't think Fox News should be the issue here. They do not have the power to threaten people with fines and jail if they aren't better at keeping records than Lois Lerner seems to be.

[AggregateDemand]

If only Nixon had destroyed the evidence........

[Badger]

If only Nixon had destroyed the evidence........

....then he would've gotten away with rampant criminal acts. But he's a Repub like us and <obligatory> lots of presidents abused their power "just as bad", amarite?

[AggregateDemand]

If only Nixon had destroyed the evidence........

....then he would've gotten away with rampant criminal acts. But he's a Repub like us and <obligatory> lots of presidents abused their power "just as bad", amarite?

I don't see much difference between this scandal and Watergate. Subversion of the political process through illicit activity. The only difference is that now we can't trace this scandal to see how far up it goes.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

I don't see much difference between this scandal and Watergate. Subversion of the political process through illicit activity. The only difference is that now we can't trace this scandal to see how far up it goes.

...What?