As flawed as it is, here is, in my view, the brighest spot of US Healthcare

[Matty]

Medical Innovation. Over the last decade, America has produced half, half, of the world's new medicine and medical devices. Today, 12 of the top 20 medical device companies are headquartered in the U.S. Whether or not this holds is anyone's guess, but the tremendous amount of innovation that occurs in our medical field here in America benefits health systems all over the world.

One concerning statistic is that America only ranks 17th out of 21 OECD nations  in the effective rate of R&D tax credits.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Well, the National Institute Of Health does spend $30 billion a year on research.
Total public spending is $49 billion a year, while total industry spending is $70 billion a year.

[Simfan34]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

Maybe that's just me, but I don't really prize the quality of healthcare if it's the privilege of an elite.

[bedstuy]

That's true, but sometimes the innovation is so directed at making money that it's a huge waste in terms of health outcomes.  The paradigmatic example is how AstraZeneca developed Nexium as an alternative to their older patent, Prilosec.  AstraZeneca's patent on Prilosec was going to run out so they developed and heavily marketed Nexium.  Nexium is virtually the same, except because it was newer and slightly different on a molecular level, they could get a new patent for Nexium.  So, long story short, millions of people have paid for Nexium when it's maybe 2% better than Prilosec.  That's not really what should count as R&D or innovation.

[Sbane]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

Maybe that's just me, but I don't really prize the quality of healthcare if it's the privilege of an elite.

As with any technology, it is expensive when it first comes bit becomes cheap as it's use becomes more widespread. Many drugs and devices we use regularly today, and are fairly cheap today, were very expensive in the past. The innovations of today will become used more widely in the future. The goal should be to quicken that process, not stifle innovation. That would be a crime against the future of humanity.

[badgate]

This is why the device tax is so important. Democrats trying to repeal it should be primaried.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

Maybe that's just me, but I don't really prize the quality of healthcare if it's the privilege of an elite.

Ugh, in 2008, only 14% of Americans were uninsured. While this is a number that everyone would agree is too high in and of itself as the most vulnerable Americans were unprotected, healthcare was hardly the privilege of "teh elites" before Obamacare.

[Matty]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

Maybe that's just me, but I don't really prize the quality of healthcare if it's the privilege of an elite.

While healthcare is "inaccessible" to many, calling it a privilege of the wealthy elite is laughable. Last time I checked, 85% of people had access to health care.

[Donerail]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

That's what you can do when you have a stringent patent system that allows companies to reap ridiculous profits from a fairly broken healthcare system.

[Matty]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

That's what you can do when you have a stringent patent system that allows companies to reap ridiculous profits from a fairly broken healthcare system.

Ridiculous profits? Try again. Overall, the profit margin for health insurance companies last year was 3.4%. That ranks 87th out of 215 industries. Surely these will increase since we have a law now that makes it illegal not to have a product offered by these companies.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

Maybe that's just me, but I don't really prize the quality of healthcare if it's the privilege of an elite.

Ugh, in 2008, only 14% of Americans were uninsured. While this is a number that everyone would agree is too high in and of itself as the most vulnerable Americans were unprotected, healthcare was hardly the privilege of "teh elites" before Obamacare.

A good share of these 86% only had extremely limited and low-quality coverage. Certainly not what it takes to have access to the finest American health innovation. And yes, I know Obamacare has only partially changed that.

[Donerail]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

That's what you can do when you have a stringent patent system that allows companies to reap ridiculous profits from a fairly broken healthcare system.

Ridiculous profits? Try again. Overall, the profit margin for health insurance companies last year was 3.4%. That ranks 87th out of 215 industries. Surely these will increase since we have a law now that makes it illegal not to have a product offered by these companies.

Nobody said anything about health insurance companies. We're talking about how America has produced many of the world's new medicines, and it's a fact that patents are used to ensure new medicines are very expensive in the United States relative to other countries. Whether this is a good thing or not (and some would argue that it's necessary to recoup the costs of development) is up for debate.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

Maybe that's just me, but I don't really prize the quality of healthcare if it's the privilege of an elite.

Ugh, in 2008, only 14% of Americans were uninsured. While this is a number that everyone would agree is too high in and of itself as the most vulnerable Americans were unprotected, healthcare was hardly the privilege of "teh elites" before Obamacare.

A good share of these 86% only had extremely limited and low-quality coverage. Certainly not what it takes to have access to the finest American health innovation. And yes, I know Obamacare has only partially changed that.

Fair point.

[Sbane]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

Maybe that's just me, but I don't really prize the quality of healthcare if it's the privilege of an elite.

Ugh, in 2008, only 14% of Americans were uninsured. While this is a number that everyone would agree is too high in and of itself as the most vulnerable Americans were unprotected, healthcare was hardly the privilege of "teh elites" before Obamacare.

A good share of these 86% only had extremely limited and low-quality coverage. Certainly not what it takes to have access to the finest American health innovation. And yes, I know Obamacare has only partially changed that.

No, Antonio you are completely wrong about that. These people did have access to those innovative procedures/medicines. It is the payment mechanism that is the problem. These people might have had high copays try couldn't pay or coverage limits which they crossed and got screwed.

[bedstuy]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

Maybe that's just me, but I don't really prize the quality of healthcare if it's the privilege of an elite.

Ugh, in 2008, only 14% of Americans were uninsured. While this is a number that everyone would agree is too high in and of itself as the most vulnerable Americans were unprotected, healthcare was hardly the privilege of "teh elites" before Obamacare.

A good share of these 86% only had extremely limited and low-quality coverage. Certainly not what it takes to have access to the finest American health innovation. And yes, I know Obamacare has only partially changed that.

No, Antonio you are completely wrong about that. These people did have access to those innovative procedures/medicines. It is the payment mechanism that is the problem. These people might have had high copays try couldn't pay or coverage limits which they crossed and got screwed.

If you can't afford to pay for something, how do you consider that having access to it?  If you hit your coverage limit and the procedure or medicine you need costs $100k, you have as much access to it as you have access to a new $100k Mercedes. 

[dead0man]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

Maybe that's just me, but I don't really prize the quality of healthcare if it's the privilege of an elite.

How do you think fancy healthcare technologies (or any fancy new tech) makes it into the hands of the poor?  MOST cool new toys start in the hands of the rich.  Sure they get to enjoy the thing first, but they also:pay out the ass for the privilege, are often nothing more than Beta testers, and occasionally die in the process.  

Rich people spending money on things the rest of us can't pay for is a GOOD THING^TM for the non-rich.  I don't understand why more people can't grasp this.

[Matty]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

Maybe that's just me, but I don't really prize the quality of healthcare if it's the privilege of an elite.

Ugh, in 2008, only 14% of Americans were uninsured. While this is a number that everyone would agree is too high in and of itself as the most vulnerable Americans were unprotected, healthcare was hardly the privilege of "teh elites" before Obamacare.

A good share of these 86% only had extremely limited and low-quality coverage. Certainly not what it takes to have access to the finest American health innovation. And yes, I know Obamacare has only partially changed that.

Like me. I am an extremely healthy young man who eats healthy, and rarely goes to the doctor. I have (or had, after it was cancelled) a catastrophic plan in case something severe happens. I deal with sickness with OTC medicine and home remedies. If I truly need to go to the urgent care, I'll pay cash. Not all, but many of the people who had "bare-bone" plans were in the same boat as me. Now we have to pay a significant amount more a month for a plan we will never use.

[bedstuy]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

Maybe that's just me, but I don't really prize the quality of healthcare if it's the privilege of an elite.

Ugh, in 2008, only 14% of Americans were uninsured. While this is a number that everyone would agree is too high in and of itself as the most vulnerable Americans were unprotected, healthcare was hardly the privilege of "teh elites" before Obamacare.

A good share of these 86% only had extremely limited and low-quality coverage. Certainly not what it takes to have access to the finest American health innovation. And yes, I know Obamacare has only partially changed that.

Like me. I am an extremely healthy young man who eats healthy, and rarely goes to the doctor. I have (or had, after it was cancelled) a catastrophic plan in case something severe happens. I deal with sickness with OTC medicine and home remedies. If I truly need to go to the urgent care, I'll pay cash. Not all, but many of the people who had "bare-bone" plans were in the same boat as me. Now we have to pay a significant amount more a month for a plan we will never use.

There's no such thing as a person who will never use healthcare in any given year, except in retrospect.  A young healthy person is unlikely to need a lot of expensive medical care, sure.  But, it's not a guarantee at all.  Eating healthy and being young doesn't make you invincible. 

And, ultimately, that's what any insurance policy does, it protects you from risk.  Insurance, at least in theory, shouldn't be there to protect you from certainties.  If you were guaranteed to get more monetary value out of insurance than you paid, the insurance company would go bankrupt (See AIG in 2008). 

[Sbane]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

Maybe that's just me, but I don't really prize the quality of healthcare if it's the privilege of an elite.

Ugh, in 2008, only 14% of Americans were uninsured. While this is a number that everyone would agree is too high in and of itself as the most vulnerable Americans were unprotected, healthcare was hardly the privilege of "teh elites" before Obamacare.

A good share of these 86% only had extremely limited and low-quality coverage. Certainly not what it takes to have access to the finest American health innovation. And yes, I know Obamacare has only partially changed that.

No, Antonio you are completely wrong about that. These people did have access to those innovative procedures/medicines. It is the payment mechanism that is the problem. These people might have had high copays try couldn't pay or coverage limits which they crossed and got screwed.

If you can't afford to pay for something, how do you consider that having access to it?  If you hit your coverage limit and the procedure or medicine you need costs $100k, you have as much access to it as you have access to a new $100k Mercedes. 

I suppose the "problem" with healthcare is that you are oftentimes sold a Mercedes without you knowing and assuming insurance will cover it. So they do have access to these devices, they might just get screwed over by the insurance company afterwards. Obamacare does tackle this situation by abolishing coverage limits.

[Adam Griffin]

Obamacare is, and by far, the brightest spot of US healthcare.

Actually, no, he's right. Innovation is where the US is the world leader in health services.

That's what you can do when you have a stringent patent system that allows companies to reap ridiculous profits from a fairly broken healthcare system.

Ridiculous profits? Try again. Overall, the profit margin for health insurance companies last year was 3.4%. That ranks 87th out of 215 industries. Surely these will increase since we have a law now that makes it illegal not to have a product offered by these companies.

For something that comprises one-sixth of our entire economy? Yes, those are ridiculous profits. The margin should be closer to a tenth of that, especially when you consider that the "3.4%" is closer to 20% when factoring in all of the administration, underwriting and useless marketing these companies do to jazz up something that should be solely about what objective level of coverage is being provided. No other country in the world pays of the privilege of having their healthcare plans effectively boxed, gift-wrapped and turd-dressed to convince people to pay an exorbitant amount for them, all the while making the costs that much more exorbitant.

[Adam Griffin]

And in case I wasn't clear: it's not just the coverage side of things. Think about the massive amounts that are spent on advertising in the pharmaceuticals arena in the United States, just so you can "ask your doctor if such and such is right for you". In most other developed nations, it's the case of "f[inks] no you'll not be asking: The doctor is skilled enough to determine what medicines you need without corporate meddling on the consumer end while dealing with tons of "free" samples being pushed to doctors so they'll defer".

[bedstuy]

If you can't afford to pay for something, how do you consider that having access to it?  If you hit your coverage limit and the procedure or medicine you need costs $100k, you have as much access to it as you have access to a new $100k Mercedes.  

I suppose the "problem" with healthcare is that you are oftentimes sold a Mercedes without you knowing and assuming insurance will cover it. So they do have access to these devices, they might just get screwed over by the insurance company afterwards. Obamacare does tackle this situation by abolishing coverage limits.

No.  If you don't have insurance approval or a means to pay for expensive medicine or care, nobody is going to do it.  Do you think a hospital is going to do a $20k procedure and just hope that someday you pay your $100k bill?  They would if you came into the ER with a gunshot wound, sure.  They wouldn't if you have a chronic illness that's not an imminent emergency.  Or, in the case of medicine, you can't go to CVS and say, "can I pretty please have this medicine for free?"  

I was actually in this exact situation as a young invincible healthy person.  I developed a chronic inflammatory disease and my doctor prescribed an expensive drug.   I hit my prescription coverage limit the second time I filled the prescription and I couldn't afford $200k a year on medicine so I had to go without medicine I desperately needed.  But, it was OK because I theoretically had access to it, right?

[dmmidmi]

Medical Innovation. Over the last decade, America has produced half, half, of the world's new medicine and medical devices. Today, 12 of the top 20 medical device companies are headquartered in the U.S. Whether or not this holds is anyone's guess, but the tremendous amount of innovation that occurs in our medical field here in America benefits health systems all over the world.

One concerning statistic is that America only ranks 17th out of 21 OECD nations  in the effective rate of R&D tax credits.

A big problem is that a lot of these medical innovations aren't making it to the places that need it the most. Sure, we have come up with awesome new knowledge and gadgets. But it only does so much good if it's mostly in the hands of the world's top physicians at the Cleveland Clinic.

While our country's rural health clinics and critical access hospitals have made leaps and bounds in their health care service delivery infrastructure (through EMR and tele-health), they're still light years behind suburban facilities.

And to be honest, people in the burbs don't have nearly the health needs that people in rural and urban areas do.