Kim Jung Un threatens war over an upcoming James Franco and Seth Rogen movie.
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  Kim Jung Un threatens war over an upcoming James Franco and Seth Rogen movie.
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Author Topic: Kim Jung Un threatens war over an upcoming James Franco and Seth Rogen movie.  (Read 5149 times)
IceSpear
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« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2014, 04:42:01 PM »

Important to note that South Korea is also fairly oppressive as well; the government and police routinely beat up and silence left-wing activists/parties and strikers.

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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2014, 05:45:43 PM »

Are you willing to fight the North Korean army yourself Eric? Would you join the Swedish military if they joined in an international mission to fight North Korea? Or do people like my cousin's ex husband and the guy at Miami Subs who I used to work with, who are currently in the military, have to go and fight this war so you can feel better about the world?

Noone would have to fight it on the ground. The believe in ground troops is pretty old-fashioned.
The navy can do the job, with the additional help of drones. It's enough to bomb their central intelligence (presidential palace, military capacity, that sort of things).
You don't understand modern warfare at all, do you?

The North Korean military has enough artillery and troops on the border to storm into South Korea at the first instant. If we can break through their air defenses quick enough and destroy their leadership compounds, the order will be thrown out to nuke Seoul and storm across the DMZ.

Precisely.

Back in 1994, when Clinton was contemplating strikes against North Korea, the U.S. military prepeared an estimation. In case of war, North Korea would face a sure defeat, but before that's achieved, as many as 100,000 American troops and millions of South Koreans would be dead. Now North Korea got the nuclear weapons, so it would be even worse.

You can't just quickly knock them out.
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Beet
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« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2014, 10:06:20 PM »

That's why they should have been taken them out in 1994. The longer we wait, the more painful it will be when the regime finally tips over the oblivion.
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politicus
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« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2014, 10:18:48 PM »
« Edited: June 26, 2014, 10:57:44 PM by politicus »

That's why they should have been taken them out in 1994. The longer we wait, the more painful it will be when the regime finally tips over the oblivion.

If # they need to be "taken out" wont it be safer to wait until China is ready to do it?
It seems they could do it at a lower cost and possibly parts of the army would desert to the Chinese, but never to the US.

# and Ill assume for the sake of argument that you are right about this.

EDIT: North Korea is actually an area where I trust Beijing to have it under control. They have as much interest in North Korea not going crazy as the West and better intelligence about the situation. If its necessary to intervene they will do it.
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patrick1
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« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2014, 10:46:52 PM »

Are you willing to fight the North Korean army yourself Eric? Would you join the Swedish military if they joined in an international mission to fight North Korea? Or do people like my cousin's ex husband and the guy at Miami Subs who I used to work with, who are currently in the military, have to go and fight this war so you can feel better about the world?

Noone would have to fight it on the ground. The believe in ground troops is pretty old-fashioned.
The navy can do the job, with the additional help of drones. It's enough to bomb their central intelligence (presidential palace, military capacity, that sort of things).
You don't understand modern warfare at all, do you?

The North Korean military has enough artillery and troops on the border to storm into South Korea at the first instant. If we can break through their air defenses quick enough and destroy their leadership compounds, the order will be thrown out to nuke Seoul and storm across the DMZ.

Precisely.

Back in 1994, when Clinton was contemplating strikes against North Korea, the U.S. military prepeared an estimation. In case of war, North Korea would face a sure defeat, but before that's achieved, as many as 100,000 American troops and millions of South Koreans would be dead. Now North Korea got the nuclear weapons, so it would be even worse.

You can't just quickly knock them out.

The accuracy of US munitions has grown substantially in the last 20 years.  If we had ample forces in the region these armored columns and artillery pieces would be sitting ducks. Not saying they couldnt try to get through a nuke and lob artillery which would inflict substantial loss of life, but the US and allies could pick apart a conventional army rather quickly. It would be a massacre. These are precisely the wars we are good at fighting... which makes our decision to not thin the toyota pickup truck population all the more frustrating but that is another topic.
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ingemann
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« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2014, 06:00:00 AM »

The idea that North Korea should in any way be a existantial threat to USA ever, are a joke North Korea are a country with 22 million (starving) people, their GDP are lower than the South Korean military budget. Most all of their military equitment are decades obsolete, their nuclear weapons are barely more than dirty bombs, as for their ICBM none of their short range missiles have worked yet.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2014, 07:15:52 AM »

Something must be done about North Korea, but military strikes would be a terrible idea.

I don't have an answer, but surely some kind of intelligence operation could be done? What would happen if there were a number of assassinations? Would North Korea have its sh** together to retaliate if that happened?
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2014, 01:42:27 PM »

Something must be done about North Korea, but military strikes would be a terrible idea.

I don't have an answer, but surely some kind of intelligence operation could be done? What would happen if there were a number of assassinations? Would North Korea have its sh** together to retaliate if that happened?
I have a feeling that if that were feasible, it would have happened long ago. It's too isolated for the CIA to make any inside contact with a high ranking general, and it would be impossible for an outsider to sneak in and kill Kim. North Korea needs the Kims to stay united, and the powers that be know this. If Kim falls, the nation is going to split apart in a civil war that will likely end with Chinese intervention.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2014, 05:11:14 PM »

Important to note that South Korea is also fairly oppressive as well; the government and police routinely beat up and silence left-wing activists/parties and strikers.

Important to note that you better shouldn't compare North Korea's human rights records with South Korea's (or basically any other country's for that matter) under any circumstances whatsoever.
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Meursault
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« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2014, 06:21:51 PM »

North Korea has a few hundred rapid-fire artillery pieces pointed at Seoul and its suburbs. I've seen casualty estimates in the South that range as high as a quarter-million in the first day of shelling.

Could the American Air Force destroy that artillery? Eventually. The problem is that it would take several days simply to knock out a majority of it. Anyone flashing back to 2003 has the absolutely wrong picture of what a Second Korean War would look like. It would be the first total war since Vietnam.
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PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald
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« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2014, 07:48:14 PM »

North Korea is the country that when you kick in the door, the whole rotton structure will come crashing down.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2014, 07:56:32 PM »

Viet Nam was certainly not a 'total war' Einzige.
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Meursault
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« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2014, 08:15:21 PM »

It was for Vietnam.
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Beet
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« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2014, 10:24:07 PM »

That's why they should have been taken them out in 1994. The longer we wait, the more painful it will be when the regime finally tips over the oblivion.

If # they need to be "taken out" wont it be safer to wait until China is ready to do it?
It seems they could do it at a lower cost and possibly parts of the army would desert to the Chinese, but never to the US.

# and Ill assume for the sake of argument that you are right about this.

EDIT: North Korea is actually an area where I trust Beijing to have it under control. They have as much interest in North Korea not going crazy as the West and better intelligence about the situation. If its necessary to intervene they will do it.

Jang Song Thaek would still be alive if Beijing had control. They might have had a leash when  Kim Jong Il was in, but not Kim Jong Un.
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politicus
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« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2014, 10:34:55 PM »
« Edited: June 27, 2014, 10:39:55 PM by politicus »

That's why they should have been taken them out in 1994. The longer we wait, the more painful it will be when the regime finally tips over the oblivion.

If # they need to be "taken out" wont it be safer to wait until China is ready to do it?
It seems they could do it at a lower cost and possibly parts of the army would desert to the Chinese, but never to the US.

# and Ill assume for the sake of argument that you are right about this.

EDIT: North Korea is actually an area where I trust Beijing to have it under control. They have as much interest in North Korea not going crazy as the West and better intelligence about the situation. If its necessary to intervene they will do it.

Jang Song Thaek would still be alive if Beijing had control. They might have had a leash when  Kim Jong Il was in, but not Kim Jong Un.

You misunderstand, I am not saying they control North Korea, but that they monitor the situation (with better info than the US) and are able to intervene with less terrible consequences than if the US does it.

Also, you commented my edit, but not my actual question to you (in bold).
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Beet
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« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2014, 10:40:08 PM »

That's why they should have been taken them out in 1994. The longer we wait, the more painful it will be when the regime finally tips over the oblivion.

If # they need to be "taken out" wont it be safer to wait until China is ready to do it?
It seems they could do it at a lower cost and possibly parts of the army would desert to the Chinese, but never to the US.

# and Ill assume for the sake of argument that you are right about this.

EDIT: North Korea is actually an area where I trust Beijing to have it under control. They have as much interest in North Korea not going crazy as the West and better intelligence about the situation. If its necessary to intervene they will do it.

Jang Song Thaek would still be alive if Beijing had control. They might have had a leash when  Kim Jong Il was in, but not Kim Jong Un.

You misunderstand, I am not saying they control North Korea, but that they monitor the situation (with better info than the US) and are able to intervene with less terrible consequences than if the US does it.

Sure, if they do it. But they've shown no signs of doing so... they are still clinging to the delusion that North Korea is their friend, and a "buffer zone" against the U.S. By the time they realize Kim Jong Un is off the rocks it will be too late.
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retromike22
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« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2015, 02:51:43 AM »

I never would have guessed that this story would have evolved further.
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Oak Hills
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« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2015, 02:08:50 PM »

Haha, funny how I had forgotten all about this.
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