SENATE BILL: Emergency Resolution to Authorize Force in Iraq (Withdrawn)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Where in the Constittuion is it mandated that a bill title must use the exact turn of phrase of the Constitution?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We could call a bill whatever we want to and as long as it derives authority from one of the enumerated clauses, it is legal.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I think the best way out of this is either an Amendment or court case.

What wording would you prefer in clause 18, Deus?

[President Tyrion]

Well, this conversation has taken a somewhat bizarre but not altogether unexpected turn.

The President is Commander-In-Chief, which is the power I referenced obliquely when I mentioned he could authorize drone strikes on his own, because drone strikes are not a declaration of war. This isn't a game of "Civilization"; there aren't clean rules as to what constitutes war and what doesn't. The fact of the matter is that the Constitution is vague, and the Senate can approve military activity and it might happen, and the Senate can fail to approve military activity, and it STILL might happen, absent a declaration of war.

[Deus Naturae]

I think the best way out of this is either an Amendment or court case.

What wording would you prefer in clause 18, Deus?

Eh...you're probably right that it doesn't matter what the bill is titled. What concerns me is that the title will result in people claiming that this isn't a declaration of war (as some have already done in this thread), even though that's explicitly what it is.

[President Tyrion]

I think the best way out of this is either an Amendment or court case.

What wording would you prefer in clause 18, Deus?

Eh...you're probably right that it doesn't matter what the bill is titled. What concerns me is that the title will result in people claiming that this isn't a declaration of war (as some have already done in this thread), even though that's explicitly what it is.

Obviously a bill stating that the Senate approves a declaration of war is a declaration of war.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I think the best way out of this is either an Amendment or court case.

What wording would you prefer in clause 18, Deus?

Eh...you're probably right that it doesn't matter what the bill is titled. What concerns me is that the title will result in people claiming that this isn't a declaration of war (as some have already done in this thread), even though that's explicitly what it is.

I am not a lawyer by trade or by hobby. I have some knowledge of history and politics and taken together the two experiences wtih both, I can offer my interpretations of what is presently the case with regards to what is legal with the present language. And since none of our more esteemed legal analysts stepped forward, I figured something was better than nothing in this regard.

Would you be willing to elaborate on precisely why people claiming it isn't a Declaration of War, is such a concern? Is it you fear they are deliberately trying to violate the Constitutional requirements, but if that is the case, how can such be if Senate passage is still present?

[Deus Naturae]

I am not a lawyer by trade or by hobby. I have some knowledge of history and politics and taken together the two experiences wtih both, I can offer my interpretations of what is presently the case with regards to what is legal with the present language. And since none of our more esteemed legal analysts stepped forward, I figured something was better than nothing in this regard.

Would you be willing to elaborate on precisely why people claiming it isn't a Declaration of War, is such a concern? Is it you fear they are deliberately trying to violate the Constitutional requirements, but if that is the case, how can such be if Senate passage is still present?

Hmm, something about this still bugs me and I'm not sure people realize the magnitude of what this is, but at this point I think you're probably right about the constitutionality under I.5.8.

Some more practical concerns: This thing sets out no concrete objectives. Who knows how long we could be in Iraq if this passes? In general I think this is way too vague. . If the Senate wants to do anything, it should be specific and well-defined, not just a nod to the President to do whatever he wants.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I agree and I was going to insist on insertion of clear restrictions of the mission and objectives to be attained, to prevent mission creep, but then we got entangled with the constitutionality aspect, which is importnat don't get me wrong.

[Lumine]

I agree and I was going to insist on insertion of clear restrictions of the mission and objectives to be attained, to prevent mission creep, but then we got entangled with the constitutionality aspect, which is importnat don't get me wrong.

I believe we're into a crucial issue in regards to the constitutionality, but as the administration will not make use of this and they are still monitoring the situation, I wonder if it might be better for me to withdraw this and instead get to work on a new War Powers Act. Any thoughts?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

That is probably the best route, either that or an amendment of some kind.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So what do you want to do?

[Lumine]

Very well then, I'll get to work on a War Powers Act (or Amendment) right now and see if I can introduce it before taking my leave of absence. Much as I remain convinced of most of the objectives of the bill, I ask it to be withdrawn.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Windjammer you can give 72 hours for Senators assume sponsorship, at end of which if no one takes it, it can be pulled from the floor.

[windjammer]

Senators, you have 72 hours to assule sponsorship of this legislation. If not, it will be withdrawn.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Just two hours and some change remaining here, if anyone still possesses any designs on the land between the two rivers.

[windjammer]

This bill has officially been withdrawn.