Only rich folks go to Congress

[IceSpear]

Just to play devil's advocate, wouldn't poor and middle class people be more susceptible to bribery?

[TNF]

Elections are the source of this problem; if you want working class people in government, you have to fundamentally change how politicians are chosen. The Athenian democracy did not have elections to the extent that we do. Athenians distrusted election because it almost always hands power to the rich. The real solution is to forego elections in favor of random selection of officeholders.

I've though about autarky and I'm iffy. But at the very least make elections as democratic as possible--no campaign spending allowed whatsoever and ensure that officeholders can be recalled by their constituents at any time, and in general bring in Nix's proposals.

Surely you mean demarchy? Autarky is cutting off foreign trade.

[politicus]

Too complex, then, for a sports reporter (Palin) or a B-movie actor (Reagan), whose entire job consists of being able to read cue cards that someone else wrote for them.

Yes, and that's why Reagan is a hero on the right. People who defy the odds, overcome dissent from the establishment, and acquit themselves on the job should be hailed as heroes. However, no one should leap to the conclusion that electing under-qualified representatives is a preferable brand of populism.

If a representative is not strong enough to swim with sharks, he/she will end up as a pawn of the establishment.

The problem is that you consider people who have knowledge from different areas of life than the ones traditionally preferred to be less qualified as representatives of their constituency. I would disagree with this. Basically its a matter of what skills and qualifications you consider relevant for being a representative.

Perhaps you should clarify what qualifications you think a Congressman should have? Is the US preference for electing people with a law degree a good thing?

[Bozo the Clown]

Yes it's the way things have always been since the dawn of time and has nothing to do with America or any kind of right-wing ideology.

[politicus]

Yes it's the way things have always been since the dawn of time and has nothing to do with America or any kind of right-wing ideology.

There are significant differences between countries when it comes to choosing representatives to Parliament and the US has a very unequal recruiting pattern, so you are clearly wrong on the first part. There is also a Development towards more socially equal representation in most countries up to around 1980 and then a return to more elite oriented recruiting patterns in many countries. Things don't just stay the same since "the dawn of times".

[Bozo the Clown]

Yes it's the way things have always been since the dawn of time and has nothing to do with America or any kind of right-wing ideology.

There are significant differences between countries when it comes to choosing representatives to Parliament and the US has a very unequal recruiting pattern, so you are clearly wrong on the first part. There is also a Development towards more socially equal representation in most countries up to around 1980 and then a return to more elite oriented recruiting patterns in many countries. Things don't just stay the same since "the dawn of times".

how awful

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Yes it's the way things have always been since the dawn of time and has nothing to do with America or any kind of right-wing ideology.

There are significant differences between countries when it comes to choosing representatives to Parliament and the US has a very unequal recruiting pattern, so you are clearly wrong on the first part. There is also a Development towards more socially equal representation in most countries up to around 1980 and then a return to more elite oriented recruiting patterns in many countries. Things don't just stay the same since "the dawn of times".

There definitely seemed to be more of a meritocracy from 1945-1980 or so.

[Bozo the Clown]

Another thing is that the rich folks in congress aren't going to make it easier for those of lower income classes to get onto their level so it's almost as if this conversation is pointless. It's like expecting corporate America (which I love dearly) to raise the minimum wage on their own. However, this topic has got me thinking and it's time for term limits and some other gimmicks. Again the problem is; who is going to implement the necessary agenda to create a more fair process for becoming a politician?

[All Along The Watchtower]

Only rich folks go to Heaven (TM) .

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Several working class people actually do go into Congress and then come out rich.

[Illuminati Blood Drinker]

Several working class people actually do go into Congress and then come out rich.

Name them.

[Indy Texas]

Several working class people actually do go into Congress and then come out rich.

Name them.

Charles Rangel can afford a vacation home in the Caribbean. He hasn't had a "private sector" job since at least his early 30s.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Several working class people actually do go into Congress and then come out rich.

Name them.

Ugh, Allen West was a high school teacher before he went to Congress.

[Del Tachi]

Does the massive amount of money out there in SuperPACs actually favor non-rich candidates?

If you're charismatic enough, experienced enough and willing to serve as a talking head then outside groups will gladly bankroll your way to Congress, no personal investment (beside time and energy) required!!

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'd prefer all economists

Christ no.

[AggregateDemand]

The problem is that you consider people who have knowledge from different areas of life than the ones traditionally preferred to be less qualified as representatives of their constituency. I would disagree with this. Basically its a matter of what skills and qualifications you consider relevant for being a representative.

Perhaps you should clarify what qualifications you think a Congressman should have? Is the US preference for electing people with a law degree a good thing?

The US Federal Government isn't responsible for much. It writes laws (lawyers), manipulates macroeconomic policy levers, currency, and pensions (economists), builds infrastructure (engineers), and provides insurance and healthcare to the elderly/veterans (doctors). Since Congress also controls the military and military spending, an argument could be made for more high-ranking military officials in Congress, but that could unintentionally recreate the military-industrial complex of the 1950s and 1960s.

Other professions would be more useful at the state/local level, where education, administration, and public healthcare facilities dominate spending.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Only rich folks go to Heaven (TM) .

Congress is more like hell than heaven.

[Simfan34]

Elections are the source of this problem; if you want working class people in government, you have to fundamentally change how politicians are chosen. The Athenian democracy did not have elections to the extent that we do. Athenians distrusted election because it almost always hands power to the rich. The real solution is to forego elections in favor of random selection of officeholders.

Of course, only 10% of residents were eligible for selection, which seems to be oddly neglected here. It handed power to the rich, anyway.

[Gustaf]

I don't think it's strange that professions with higher qualifications would be overrepresented in a parliament.

The interesting question, to me, would rather be class background. Can you come from a working class family, become a lawyer/CEO/whatever and then have a career?

[So rightwing that I broke the Political Compass!]

How is it disadvantageous for a nation to be governed by it's most cultivated/resourceful/connected elements?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Elections are the source of this problem; if you want working class people in government, you have to fundamentally change how politicians are chosen. The Athenian democracy did not have elections to the extent that we do. Athenians distrusted election because it almost always hands power to the rich. The real solution is to forego elections in favor of random selection of officeholders.

I've though about autarky and I'm iffy. But at the very least make elections as democratic as possible--no campaign spending allowed whatsoever and ensure that officeholders can be recalled by their constituents at any time, and in general bring in Nix's proposals.

Surely you mean demarchy? Autarky is cutting off foreign trade.

LOL, I did. Just saw my original post again from it being quoted in Foucaulf's signature.

[politicus]

I don't think it's strange that professions with higher qualifications would be overrepresented in a parliament.

The interesting question, to me, would rather be class background. Can you come from a working class family, become a lawyer/CEO/whatever and then have a career?

There is always an overrepresentation of academics (especially people with a social science/law background) in parliaments, but at some point this overrepresentation becomes too extreme.

Successful people with working class background does not necessarily show solidarity with workers. Some of the most anti-labour CEO's have a working class background. The same goes for pols and top civil servants.

[Lurker]

I don't think it's strange that professions with higher qualifications would be overrepresented in a parliament.

The interesting question, to me, would rather be class background. Can you come from a working class family, become a lawyer/CEO/whatever and then have a career?

Agreed, that's a much more interesting question. I would love to see some studies on that (would be fascinating to see how various Western countries compare).

[politicus]

I don't think it's strange that professions with higher qualifications would be overrepresented in a parliament.

The interesting question, to me, would rather be class background. Can you come from a working class family, become a lawyer/CEO/whatever and then have a career?

Agreed, that's a much more interesting question. I would love to see some studies on that (would be fascinating to see how various Western countries compare).

Why?

Anyway, we have two variables here: income/wealth and education, which are not necessarily overlapping. The original question was about wealth as a (usual) requirement for a political career in the US, not educational background.

Secondly the general question about social mobility, that Gustav raised (becoming a CEO, lawyer etc.), is not necessarily related to access to parliament. By broadening the topic to general social mobility you get a much more blurred and unfocused discussion (which is also outside of the purpose of this thread).

If you guys wanna discuss social mobility in general you should create a separate thread for that.

[Black Panther]

Thats because congress is run by RICH WHITE CAPITALISTS, who continue to OPENLY ADVOCATE AND PRACTICE GENOCIDE AGAINST BLACKS, INDIANS, HISPANICS, AND ANYONE WHO ISINT WHITE AND FILTHY RICH. YOUR GODDAMN RIGHT I'M A ANGRY BLACK MAN. TO HELL WITH YOUR OPPRESSIVE SYSTEM, IM TIRED OF SEEING BROTHERS BEING SHIPPED AWAY AND FRAMED BY THE POLICE BY WHITE GODDAMN CAPITALISTS WHO ONLY CARE ABOUT GODDAMN GREED AND FILLING THEIR POCKETS.