Asia's Cult of Intelligence versus the US' Cult of Ignorance

[Meursault]

If I were dictator, the second thing I'd do (the first being to place large orders of jackboots, suspenders and peaked caps) would be to send fifty or sixty of the gendarmerie to the University of Chicago with a list of names and some streetsweepers.

[AggregateDemand]

If I were dictator, the second thing I'd do (the first being to place large orders of jackboots, suspenders and peaked caps) would be to send fifty or sixty of the gendarmerie to the University of Chicago with a list of names and some streetsweepers.

Your agenda is so well disguised, they'd never anticipate your arrival.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The truth is that one of our parties is devoted to hillbilly supremacy and the other is partially devoted to coddling losers. East Asia lacks those types of parties, so they naturally work harder and are smarter than either your soccer moms, your rednecks, or your hoodlums.
This is why we need Obama: he is cutting through this nonsense with common core.

Like I said to krazen, if you think there aren't political elements in Japan or South Korea or wherever else devoted to (the equivalent of) hillbilly supremacy or coddling (what you might consider) losers, you don't actually know much about that part of the world. Idealization of the cultures and political economies of Northeast Asian countries is irksome, and isn't really a function of treating that part of the world with genuine interest or respect at all.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

There's enough hot air in this thread to fuel a small power station.

[PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald]

The truth is that one of our parties is devoted to hillbilly supremacy and the other is partially devoted to coddling losers. East Asia lacks those types of parties, so they naturally work harder and are smarter than either your soccer moms, your rednecks, or your hoodlums.
This is why we need Obama: he is cutting through this nonsense with common core.

Like I said to krazen, if you think there aren't political elements in Japan or South Korea or wherever else devoted to (the equivalent of) hillbilly supremacy or coddling (what you might consider) losers, you don't actually know much about that part of the world. Idealization of the cultures and political economies of Northeast Asian countries is irksome, and isn't really a function of treating that part of the world with genuine interest or respect at all.

I can't take that assertion seriously without you citing your sources.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Strange, given that US spending on the government education industry complex dwarfs Japan on a per capita basis.

But I suppose they don't have a moocher problem.

I really love it when you present cherry-picked statistics that demonstrate once again the adage that there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

In both Korea and Japan, there is such an extensive system of privately-funded tutoring to make up for the deficiencies of their public education system that only those unable to afford it fail to get their children private tutoring on a scale Kaplan would kill to even get a fraction of that if you add those costs, Korea and Japan are actually spending more per capita than the US.  As for including Luxembourg as one of the cherries, it's absurdly high GDP means that on a percentage of GDP basis it spends about three-fourths that of the US.

Yeah, there are problems with American education, but your monomania on moochers as being the root cause of the problem to the level of ignoring all other causes just does not stand up to scrutiny, krazen.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The truth is that one of our parties is devoted to hillbilly supremacy and the other is partially devoted to coddling losers. East Asia lacks those types of parties, so they naturally work harder and are smarter than either your soccer moms, your rednecks, or your hoodlums.
This is why we need Obama: he is cutting through this nonsense with common core.

Like I said to krazen, if you think there aren't political elements in Japan or South Korea or wherever else devoted to (the equivalent of) hillbilly supremacy or coddling (what you might consider) losers, you don't actually know much about that part of the world. Idealization of the cultures and political economies of Northeast Asian countries is irksome, and isn't really a function of treating that part of the world with genuine interest or respect at all.

I can't take that assertion seriously without you citing your sources.

You know, I've been to Japan. I've studied the country for years. (Note: Some of the links are to articles on political, philosophical, or sociological concepts that are bull[Inks]. What's relevant is the fact that said concepts exist.)

Fun fact: In Japan as in America the 'loser-coddling' factions have done some of the most and most lasting good for the country in all sorts of ways.

Fun fact #2: There are at least two variations of the type of populist nationalism that you seem to mean by 'hillbilly supremacy' in Japanese politics, an urban kind and a rural kind. The urban kind is actually a lot more pernicious. The rural kind is sometimes benign, sometimes even helpful, and sometimes disgusting. The urban kind is always disgusting.

[PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald]

The truth is that one of our parties is devoted to hillbilly supremacy and the other is partially devoted to coddling losers. East Asia lacks those types of parties, so they naturally work harder and are smarter than either your soccer moms, your rednecks, or your hoodlums.
This is why we need Obama: he is cutting through this nonsense with common core.

Like I said to krazen, if you think there aren't political elements in Japan or South Korea or wherever else devoted to (the equivalent of) hillbilly supremacy or coddling (what you might consider) losers, you don't actually know much about that part of the world. Idealization of the cultures and political economies of Northeast Asian countries is irksome, and isn't really a function of treating that part of the world with genuine interest or respect at all.

I can't take that assertion seriously without you citing your sources.

You know, I've been to Japan. I've studied the country for years. (Note: Some of the links are to articles on political, philosophical, or sociological concepts that are bull[Inks]. What's relevant is the fact that said concepts exist.)

Fun fact: In Japan as in America the 'loser-coddling' factions have done some of the most and most lasting good for the country in all sorts of ways.

Fun fact #2: There are at least two variations of the type of populist nationalism that you seem to mean by 'hillbilly supremacy' in Japanese politics, an urban kind and a rural kind. The urban kind is actually a lot more pernicious. The rural kind is sometimes benign, sometimes even helpful, and sometimes disgusting. The urban kind is always disgusting.

I stand corrected.

[Indy Texas]

The truth is that one of our parties is devoted to hillbilly supremacy and the other is partially devoted to coddling losers. East Asia lacks those types of parties, so they naturally work harder and are smarter than either your soccer moms, your rednecks, or your hoodlums.
This is why we need Obama: he is cutting through this nonsense with common core.

Like I said to krazen, if you think there aren't political elements in Japan or South Korea or wherever else devoted to (the equivalent of) hillbilly supremacy or coddling (what you might consider) losers, you don't actually know much about that part of the world. Idealization of the cultures and political economies of Northeast Asian countries is irksome, and isn't really a function of treating that part of the world with genuine interest or respect at all.

I can't take that assertion seriously without you citing your sources.

You know, I've been to Japan. I've studied the country for years. (Note: Some of the links are to articles on political, philosophical, or sociological concepts that are bull[Inks]. What's relevant is the fact that said concepts exist.)

Fun fact: In Japan as in America the 'loser-coddling' factions have done some of the most and most lasting good for the country in all sorts of ways.

Fun fact #2: There are at least two variations of the type of populist nationalism that you seem to mean by 'hillbilly supremacy' in Japanese politics, an urban kind and a rural kind. The urban kind is actually a lot more pernicious. The rural kind is sometimes benign, sometimes even helpful, and sometimes disgusting. The urban kind is always disgusting.

I assume that by the rural kind, you mean the absurd deference to Japan's small, elderly, powerful rural farmers, who have convinced the Diet that it makes more sense to forbid rice imports and have the Japanese buy high-cost rice that 80 year old Japanese grow on postage stamp sized terrace plots than it does to just get it from countries like China or Vietnam who can grow it cheaper and in larger quantities.

But what is the urban kind?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The truth is that one of our parties is devoted to hillbilly supremacy and the other is partially devoted to coddling losers. East Asia lacks those types of parties, so they naturally work harder and are smarter than either your soccer moms, your rednecks, or your hoodlums.
This is why we need Obama: he is cutting through this nonsense with common core.

Like I said to krazen, if you think there aren't political elements in Japan or South Korea or wherever else devoted to (the equivalent of) hillbilly supremacy or coddling (what you might consider) losers, you don't actually know much about that part of the world. Idealization of the cultures and political economies of Northeast Asian countries is irksome, and isn't really a function of treating that part of the world with genuine interest or respect at all.

I can't take that assertion seriously without you citing your sources.

You know, I've been to Japan. I've studied the country for years. (Note: Some of the links are to articles on political, philosophical, or sociological concepts that are bull[Inks]. What's relevant is the fact that said concepts exist.)

Fun fact: In Japan as in America the 'loser-coddling' factions have done some of the most and most lasting good for the country in all sorts of ways.

Fun fact #2: There are at least two variations of the type of populist nationalism that you seem to mean by 'hillbilly supremacy' in Japanese politics, an urban kind and a rural kind. The urban kind is actually a lot more pernicious. The rural kind is sometimes benign, sometimes even helpful, and sometimes disgusting. The urban kind is always disgusting.

I assume that by the rural kind, you mean the absurd deference to Japan's small, elderly, powerful rural farmers, who have convinced the Diet that it makes more sense to forbid rice imports and have the Japanese buy high-cost rice that 80 year old Japanese grow on postage stamp sized terrace plots than it does to just get it from countries like China or Vietnam who can grow it cheaper and in larger quantities.

Partially, yes. That as a part of the whole 'construction state'/ex-Tanakaist/rural and suburban cronyism side of the LDP in general, which, while on balance objectionable, is I think less so than some of the alternatives.

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The JRP and similar outfits, which it must be remembered are very much flashy, Tokyo- and Osaka-centric in terms of their voting base, and in many cases youth-fetishizing movements, but which retain the blend of nationalism, populism, and tacit anti-intellectualism that I assume was the specific ideological tendency that Mr. Pollo meant by 'hillbilly supremacy'.

[patrick1]

If I were dictator, the second thing I'd do (the first being to place large orders of jackboots, suspenders and peaked caps) would be to send fifty or sixty of the gendarmerie to the University of Chicago with a list of names and some streetsweepers.

...and I need to order Wellingtons with all the bull$hit you are piling up in this thread.

[krazen1211]

Strange, given that US spending on the government education industry complex dwarfs Japan on a per capita basis.

But I suppose they don't have a moocher problem.

I really love it when you present cherry-picked statistics that demonstrate once again the adage that there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

In both Korea and Japan, there is such an extensive system of privately-funded tutoring to make up for the deficiencies of their public education system that only those unable to afford it fail to get their children private tutoring on a scale Kaplan would kill to even get a fraction of that if you add those costs, Korea and Japan are actually spending more per capita than the US.  As for including Luxembourg as one of the cherries, it's absurdly high GDP means that on a percentage of GDP basis it spends about three-fourths that of the US.

Yeah, there are problems with American education, but your monomania on moochers as being the root cause of the problem to the level of ignoring all other causes just does not stand up to scrutiny, krazen.

It is certainly strange to see a liberal explain the merits of a private sector model, especially in this industry.

But of course, there are oranges, apples, and grapes. And there is comparing apples to oranges and calling both grapes. Boosting the Japan side by accounting for private spending while failing to do the same for the United States is certainly one of the above. In the United States our massive public sector figures are only 70% of the total; 30% comes elsewhere. We are right there with both nations in this category.

Or, perhaps you'd prefer this graph, which adds up public and private spending.



Congratulations. We are still Goliath. But that's the point, isn't it?

[Roemerista]

Not to get involved in all of this, but:

Education spending per pupil is perhaps the worst metric to compare educational institutions. Not to get too far into it, but it does not break down the type of services rendered--let alone variance in inputs within similar services. Even within the United States the academic literature generally shows a weak correlation between spending and performance (ever since the Coleman Report).

However, that does not mean that spending is irrelevant. Context is king. For example, some districts have a great deal more to spend on in terms of support structures. English language learner needs for a start.

As to anti-intellectualism, there is something inherent in a democracy I would wager. Although that wouldn't be Richard Hofstadter's conclusion.

[Indy Texas]

Yeah, this thread just needs to stop. As Cromwell once said, "Depart, I say, and let us have done with you."

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

In the United States our massive public sector figures are only 70% of the total; 30% comes elsewhere. We are right there with both nations in this category.

That OECD comparison in your second link is explicit in that it calculating only the public:private ratios of money that goes thru educational institutions, not any money used for private tutoring that does not go thru a student's primary educational institution. So, Krazen, unless you can provide a source that shows otherwise,  I have to believe that graph of yours excludes the cost of supplemental tutoring, and only includes the cost of the primary schooling students receive, regardless of whether that school is publicly or privately funded. Otherwise, given the figures on what South Koreans spend on supplemental tutoring,  it means that South Korea's public spending on schools is at roughly the level of Turkey which simply doesn't pass the smell test.  I'd say try again, except you are always trying.

[pbrower2a]

This thread needs to be ended, article deleted, and people educated on Asia.

Anyone who makes generalizations about Asia, which includes places as disparate as Lebanon and Laos (which seem to have French colonial rule in their past as their only common trait), is a fool.